Episode #39 Hannah Dunn
Purpose, Connection, and a New Language for Well-being with Hannah Dunn
We are thrilled to bring you another episode of The Excitable Soul Podcast, where we dive deep into all things purpose with inspiring guests who are reshaping the way we understand life and connection.
In our latest episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with the incredible Hannah Dunn, a force of change aiming to transform how we talk about and perceive the mind.
Hannah's journey is a testament to the power of words and the impact they have on our well-being. Her passion for changing the narrative from "mental health" to "mind well-being" has sparked a movement that is both innovative and transformative.
Here's a peek into what you can expect from our conversation:
Hannah shares her personal journey through a pivotal moment of crisis, which she now sees as a breakthrough, leading to the birth of her CIC, Mind Wellbeing.
Discover how a simple shift in language can alter perceptions and reduce stigmas, empowering individuals to embrace their emotions and communicate them more effectively.
Explore the importance of early intervention in children's education to build a robust foundation of self-awareness and emotional intelligence.
Learn how Hannah's work is impacting schools and workplaces, fostering environments where connection and community thrive.
Hannah's story is one of courage, resilience, and the unfaltering belief that together, we can change the world with our words. Are you ready to be inspired? Tune in to this life-altering conversation by clicking the link below and join us in the movement to redefine mind well-being.
Links in the episode:
Read the transcript here
James Glover [00:00:09]:
Alrighty. Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.
James Glover [00:00:44]:
So let's get going, shall we? Hello, everybody. Today, we have Hannah Dunn with us. Hannah is the driving force behind a mission to create lasting change in how we understand and talk about the mind. She is leading a major cultural shift, helping to educate the next generation and society as a whole on what truly matters to us, understanding our emotions, communicating them, and recognizing the power of language in bridging the gap between our inner and outer worlds. At the heart of Hannah's work is a commitment to rebuilding connection and community in an increasingly fast paced world. In 2019, she reached crisis point, or she now calls it a breakthrough. During this time, she realized that the word mental carried a stigma that fueled shame, fear, and hopelessness. But through her own journey, she found clarity.
James Glover [00:01:37]:
Motherhood further reinforced an urgent need for early intervention and proactive support in shaping a healthier future. The first seeds of an ambitious idea took root. One question lit the way. If we change our words, can we change the world? The answer, % yes. And from that, mind well-being was born. This is a wonderful conversation confronting deeply human themes of awareness, expectation, and the need for connection. Enjoy. Hello, everybody.
James Glover [00:02:07]:
Welcome back to the Excitable Soul podcast. What a treat we have for you today. We have got Hannah with us. Hannah, how are you feeling?
Hannah Dunn [00:02:14]:
Yeah. Excited. Excitable Soul podcast. I'm excited.
James Glover [00:02:20]:
Brilliant. We've got, like, matching energy for this recording in terms of, like, the excitable souls flying around. We were just talking about, cups of tea and coffee and sizes of mugs. I'm a little bit like bonding over the need for a really huge cup.
Hannah Dunn [00:02:34]:
Yeah. Even if I don't so my cup I mean, this is actually one of my smaller ones.
James Glover [00:02:40]:
Brilliant.
Hannah Dunn [00:02:41]:
I I it's like I have to have a it's almost like my version of a teddy bear that I can carry around all day. It's like my comfort blanket. And so people weren't used to when I was in the office that they started just making me, like, a quarter because they're like, you don't think it. And I was like, no. But I need it.
James Glover [00:02:56]:
Yeah. Listen, it's not about the liquid. Just got to bring the cup. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was away working this week. And, one of the things I keep promising myself is that I'm going to take a, I'm going to find a portable massive cup. Cause whenever you go into like most venues, the coffee and teacups are, like, thimble size.
James Glover [00:03:15]:
It's like a mouthful and a half, and boom, you try to have to go and make another one.
Hannah Dunn [00:03:19]:
Yeah. I I get angry. It makes me angry when I when I get and I'm like, it's not a good way to start, like, a a conference or something. I'm like, what are what is this? It's not
James Glover [00:03:29]:
Agreed. So, ladies and gentlemen, you're in for a good conversation because both Hannah and I have got fully filled, fully fueled massive mugs of, of, of tea and coffee to to to go out this afternoon. So hopefully, that's gonna stand us in good stead. Hannah, we we we at the excitable soul, we're kind of really interested in exploring the experiences that have shaped people and, you know, where and how they find meaning in their lives. And, your journey is, like, epic and massive, and it's got loads and loads of of of of different elements for us to explore. But I'm wondering if we could kind of, I know, go back before we go forward almost and just, sit in that place of who are the people, what are the moments, you know, what are the situations that have really shaped who you are and and how you see the world around you?
Hannah Dunn [00:04:16]:
Oh, wow. That's a big, big question. I would say so many. The I would say the the big, big, huge pivotal, moment for me was, having my little boy. And having my little boy, brought up for me every ounce of things I had not dealt with.
James Glover [00:04:42]:
Wow.
Hannah Dunn [00:04:43]:
And I am a lot more comfortable talking about this now. I had to break down when he was six months old, and COVID had just happened as well, which was an added thing to it. And I realized that although consciously, I would have said I'd walked through life up to that point very much not repeating patterns that I'd seen as a child.
James Glover [00:05:08]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:05:08]:
I had very much repeated the pattern as a child from a relate from, you know, in terms of how I structured relationships around me and, and what what I gravitated towards and all of those things. And it was just the most smack in the face is what I can describe it as as terms of I'd I'd I'd operated, which I think so many people do up to that point in my life, as to I need to just get to that bit. I need to get to that bit. I need to get to that milestone. So, in terms of childhood, I I've got two sisters. They're great. I love them. My mom I've got my mom.
Hannah Dunn [00:05:54]:
My dad passed away ten years ago, but he and he was an alcoholic. He and he died of alcohol related, illnesses. And I hadn't realized how much that had impacted
James Glover [00:06:05]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:06:06]:
Who I
James Glover [00:06:07]:
became. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:06:08]:
I would have said that, you know, me and my sisters were all really independent, and it hadn't affected us at all. It it most definitely had affected
James Glover [00:06:16]:
us. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:06:18]:
And it sent me quite on a trajectory of chasing the next thing. So right. Well, I'll feel comfortable and at peace when I've left home, and I'm at 18, and I've done that. And then I'll feel like when I feel when I've ticked that box and when I've ticked that box and when I've ticked that box. Yeah. And so I'd say the pivotal experience that shaped who I am today is having my little boy and the unfolding of my life I created. And then since then, I would have found everyone. Because I think once you have such a realization of how you've led your life in a way you you wouldn't now
James Glover [00:06:58]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:06:59]:
You you see so much in other people. And it sent me on a journey of coaching, learning about childhood trauma, working in schools, all of these things. And everyone who I've met on that journey has provided me with some kind of inspiration or reflection or so, yeah, it's been a I think I've just rambled. But yeah.
James Glover [00:07:21]:
I mean, like, wow. What what a way to kind of dive into the conversation. You answered, you know, big question with big answers in terms of those kind of, experiences. But what what's really kind of, landing really strongly with me is this sense of this one moment and this birth of your son, how it started to, build a level of awareness to a whole bunch of things that really you haven't been paying attention to. And that, actually, when I listened to you talking back about, the loss of your father or actually the kind of desire to, to to move from one kind of short term goal to the next short term goal, the the things that you're talking about is like, oh, wow. I'm seeing some stuff that I never really saw before. And because I didn't see it, I didn't really understand the impact that it was having. And now all of a sudden, I'm getting all of that information all of the time, and it's a little overwhelming, I've gotta be honest with you.
Hannah Dunn [00:08:18]:
I wouldn't get it. A %. It was like it happened. It was like it all came at once. Yeah. And, yeah, it was
James Glover [00:08:27]:
And with COVID and with new child. Like, that's not just, how do I figure out some of these experiences and make sense of them? That's like, how do I make sense of a world that has literally just turned itself upside down, and have this thing in my world now that I'm ultimately responsible for.
Hannah Dunn [00:08:45]:
Yeah. A %. And it was and has been the most overwhelming and scary, now five five years of of of my life. And I do I do remember the some moments after that where I was kind of putting the pieces together Yeah. And just thinking, right. Well and, actually, I didn't know a lot about my my family, such as my parents were both only children. And, actually, I do know a bit more now, and there's been a history of certainly men experiencing, I'm gonna say mind well-being
James Glover [00:09:27]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:09:28]:
Difficulties. In in the past, I remember sat on my bed going, right. Well, out of this whole really horrible situation you find yourself in, what can you do to, one, make sure less people get to the point that you've got to? Yeah. And what can you do to make a difference to the children so that they don't experience what you went through, and then that kind of spurred me on to a different path.
James Glover [00:10:00]:
And, and I hope it's okay. I I'm really keen for us to kinda be able to spend some time exploring how that path grew in front of you from that moment. But almost, just kind of staying in the realizations that were were kind of forming for you. You talked about, I didn't know much about my family. I do now. Like, what were some of the key questions that arose for you in that in that moment of breakdown? Because I'm I'm imagining, and I'm and I'm kind of putting myself in the position of, I don't know, being driving in a car, listening to the conversation, going, wow. That feels like just such a momentous occasion where this all kinda came together and and ended up in you kind of feeling all of the things that you were feeling. How did you even begin to make sense of that? How did you even begin to start to kind of heal through that process?
Hannah Dunn [00:10:48]:
Well, I like, I have to say, it's an ongoing journey. I can't I I think there's a massive thing out there that I wish would stop, in terms of getting healed and Yeah. You're not being okay to continue in life until you're like this healed version of yourself. And I think that's life. Like, the the journey of healing is becoming the best, most connected version of yourself. Yeah. And when I had lived thirty three years of my life, take it probably a few early years where I was connected, very much disconnected, then the resolve of that or the healing of that's not gonna happen in a month, six months, a year, two years, ten years. It's just a forever evolution.
James Glover [00:11:37]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:11:38]:
That that is what it will be. However, I'd say the start of it would have been, I went to therapy. And,
James Glover [00:11:49]:
When when did you notice that you weren't okay? Like, what what were the things that you experienced and you were kind of going, hold on a second. There's probably something I need to pay attention to here for me.
Hannah Dunn [00:11:59]:
Yeah. Well, I'd I it was when I'd had my little boy just feeling overly I felt overly anxious. Yeah. And I am naturally very nurturing, and so that I didn't expect that. And then that turned into some real difficulties in my that that's not what turned into, but there were some real difficulties in my relationship. Yeah. So then that I found that, you know, on reflection, I was I I could see then a pattern that I'd repeated and then felt really trapped, which only related my anxiety. And then over the period of a few months, it got worse and worse and worse, to the point where then I couldn't sleep.
Hannah Dunn [00:12:50]:
And then that continued. And then I can only I can only explain it as I should have said I wasn't okay long before, but I I I'd spent my whole life saying I was okay when I probably wasn't. I wasn't about to do that when I was in the most vulnerable position I've ever been in, and that it was okay. It was just a a build over time of a load of feelings and emotions I've not fell and dealt with
James Glover [00:13:23]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:13:24]:
Which kind of crescendoed.
James Glover [00:13:26]:
I mean and and I was I was gonna say amazing. And I don't mean that in terms of, wow, amazing, what an experience you had. I mean, amazing in terms of the insights that were generated. Wow. Heartless Glover listening. But the because there's something, really incredible, and I and I know this will no doubt speak to the work that you are now doing, but there's there's something about the information that we're just paying attention to on a day to day basis and the information that we kinda dismiss. And, actually, even though there is a huge amount more in the world around around mind well-being, around comfort and importance of emotion and people being in a position to really try and drive out the kind of stigma associated with some of those things. It's still on the grand scheme of of of things small.
James Glover [00:14:12]:
Like, it is not the common practice. It's not the common experience for people on day to day basis to go, how am I feeling? Really, how am I feeling? And then and to be able to notice actually what what what that emotion is and where it's coming from.
Hannah Dunn [00:14:28]:
Yeah. Because people it's uncomfortable. You know, we are all human beings, and none of us feel the I like to call them energies because it's it's easier for me to then not call them negative and positive or be because I try not to because they're all messengers. Like and I think that's as humans, we don't want to feel something that's uncomfortable. But we've all been through uncomfortable, scary situations. We all feel shame of some kind. We all we all feel all of the emotions, but we live in a world where there's almost, like, this this strive for happiness. And really now it's it's a it's a feeling no one feels like that all the time.
Hannah Dunn [00:15:20]:
Nobody. Even the people Beyonce doesn't. You know? They don't feel happy all the time. But it's the it's the premise out there, which I definitely did, and I think it's a gen I think it's less in the next generations. But in in mine, it was this strive for happiness and also a real drive. It was a thing that you, like, have to do it all on your own, which was how I made myself up. And it's it's people would much rather and have been conditioned to distract from their feelings than than feel them and let them go. Because we're not taught to I mean, and that's that's a whole that's a whole another avenue of mind well-being.
Hannah Dunn [00:16:12]:
But
James Glover [00:16:12]:
yeah. So can I can I ask in this process of kind of allowing this to come in, like, a like, a notice in the first instance, kind of awareness is critical? Right? You can, you can be told a whole bunch of things. Like, you can maybe even intellectually understand a whole bunch of things, but unless you are really truly aware of your experience of them, and that's not just cognitively. That's, like, embodied experience. It can just pass you by. So there was something I'm hearing, like this stuff came in, you started to notice it. You started to become aware of it. Like, wow.
James Glover [00:16:46]:
I, I haven't felt these and I'm not really down for them. What is this? Yeah. It's
Hannah Dunn [00:16:53]:
been a long time running from them, so why are we having to sit with them now?
James Glover [00:16:59]:
Yeah. No. Thanks, actually. Jog on. But so there's something about you kind of feeling all of that and that's starting to then drive to drive to action. What were some of the the kind of the really big insights in that experience of of figuring out what was provoking that for you? What were the things that felt really useful that you could go, alright. Okay. Now I understand that there's something I can do with it.
Hannah Dunn [00:17:22]:
I think it I think the the biggest thing so I have to say, like, in that in the journey I've been on, I spent a considerable chunk of time purely in cognitive mode and still not actually feeling and let letting any of it go. It was more of a, how can I again, how can I work out what's happened, make sense of it, and get back to how I was before?
James Glover [00:17:49]:
Yeah. Right. Interesting. I I need to get back to BAU. Business as usual, please. Yeah. Cool. Alright.
Hannah Dunn [00:17:54]:
So there was definitely a period of that, and I would say it's only very recently, I'd say over the last year, out of that five years that I have been able to then go to sit with it and not try and work it out and not try and put the a big narrative to it. I mean, some of the cognitive stuff is absolutely correct, and I can see I think it's really important for you to be able to see what's happened, but that's not the resolve of it. And so the what's really helped me to be able to start to be comfortable in the sit in is knowing that it's not me.
James Glover [00:18:39]:
Yes.
Hannah Dunn [00:18:41]:
It isn't and I don't mean that from a I'm a I'm I I'm response irresponsible of all action kind of place. I mean it from a you are not your feelings.
James Glover [00:18:50]:
Yes.
Hannah Dunn [00:18:51]:
They are they are something you are feeling and an emotion you're feeling based on an experience that your body has had before based on an external environment that you are in, it's not who you are.
James Glover [00:19:06]:
Yes.
Hannah Dunn [00:19:07]:
And we build our identities as a a very, very young age and create some very strong stories in our brains that that's the case. That that, oh, this must be me. This this feeling that's not nice, that's uncomfortable, that must be me. So how do I navigate surviving this and still keep in going? And now I'm able to acknowledge the feelings and not try and think my way out of there. Just go right. Okay. So this is coming up and allow it and not tie myself to it, not tie a narrative to it, not tie anyone else to it, and just allow it to pass. That's when I've seen the significant progress in actually being able to move to a lighter place.
James Glover [00:20:09]:
Yeah. I love that language of lighter. And you mentioned before about the forever evolution, which I thought was just a really wonderful way of describing, like, the work isn't ever done because we're human beings, and so the work is just never done. But then there's something here about this, like, just the principle of lightness, being able to let go of a sense of responsibility or accountability to something that isn't serving you. And that's not, I think the the critical differentiator here is that we've all can take responsibility for our behaviors. Right? The way in which we act in the world and the impact of that is something that we massively need to take responsibility and accountability for. But what drives that behavior, what sits behind some of that often, I guess Mel Robbins talks about, you know, how we talk about emotions influences how we experience those emotions, and she talks about, you know, anxiety and people saying my anxiety. And she's like, that's one of the worst things you can do because all of a sudden to your point, it connects your sense of identity and self with this felt experience.
James Glover [00:21:18]:
When actual fact, she's just saying, you feel anxious. I am feeling anxious. I am not anxious. I'm feeling anxious. And that doesn't take away from the experience you're having. The experience can be as significant as it was before, but it's just not who you are. It's something that you are going through in that moment. And all of a sudden, you have agency in that, don't you? Like, oh, cool.
James Glover [00:21:43]:
Alright. Well, if that isn't me, then maybe on the other side of this, that is me. What's that bit like? And how do I feel that more? And, and all of a sudden, like, things just become different, don't they, in terms of what's possible?
Hannah Dunn [00:21:55]:
And that's I mean, you've just you've just, like, literally done five minutes of my initial training workshop. Right. That that that is my out of one part of what I'm doing to adults. The key thing the the one thing I asked them to take away from the first training session is if you can start practicing, not saying I am about your feelings, that alone
James Glover [00:22:27]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:22:27]:
Will have a massive impact. And I get and it's about giving them the right, alternatives because you go especially I've been I've been delivering some training to, you know, in the construction industry. So you've got a lot of traditional, prideful, strong, stoic characters there that that this is just a hell no. Yeah. Yeah. So Big time.
James Glover [00:22:52]:
And,
Hannah Dunn [00:22:53]:
you know, they're not gonna start walking around saying I feel, but it's giving them alternatives that just externalizes the experience. So as long as you're not as you don't have need to say I feel, you can say something else as long as you're not you're not using words that internalize it. Because because they
James Glover [00:23:11]:
I mean, I work in that industry too. Right? So what what we can say with the level of comfort is, especially the men in that environment are pretty good at internalizing stuff. Like, they're pretty good at putting it in, squishing it down, moving on to the next thing. And it's also the reason why it's the industry with the highest level of suicide rate in men.
Hannah Dunn [00:23:31]:
A hundred percent.
James Glover [00:23:32]:
And men are the highest rates of suicide societally. So you've got an industry that is the highest level of the thing that is actually the most significant for men societally. Like, there's a reason for some of that, and this is part of that. Yes.
Hannah Dunn [00:24:20]:
You just box that up right there.
James Glover [00:24:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. Don't have to bring that. Don't Don't have to talk about that.
Hannah Dunn [00:24:25]:
Yep. Everyone around me is the same. Yeah. And so it's a it's it's it's a tough nut to crack, but it's definitely been an industry that I've been focused on trying to get in with with this with the message then.
James Glover [00:24:40]:
So in this experience because I'm I'm keen for us to start to to talk about how this started to change a different trajectory and a different kind of route forwards for you. But before we do that before we do that, the kind of the the the the work of starting to kind of peel back the layers and start to understand, start to be able to see the patterns, to be able to get insight around the patterns, what did you start to understand were the things that just most meaningful to you? The things that feel like they're most significant and they're most important and that actually the things that when you pay attention to and when you contribute to, like, life feels purposeful.
Hannah Dunn [00:25:17]:
Yeah. It was it started with my little boy. I had been a % disconnected from my from myself. And, although I knew instinctually that I wanted I definitely wanted a family and I definitely wanted children, I'd spent that long disconnected from myself chasing all this other stuff first. That when I had him, I didn't feel how I expected to feel. Yeah. When everything started to unravel, and I felt at my absolute worst, the connection to him is is is is what brought what I've what I now label as little is what love is was there. And there was a period of time where nothing nothing nothing nothing else brought me any kind of feeling to to what just spending time with him, looking into his eyes as and also exchanging the simplest of things brought.
Hannah Dunn [00:26:20]:
And that for me was the base of right. Okay. I've got a lot of, I've got a journey ahead of me with this. But as simple as it starts, this brings up all these warm fuzzy feelings and and and lightness and things. So let's start with this.
James Glover [00:26:42]:
Yeah. Amazing.
Hannah Dunn [00:26:43]:
That more. And then it that was then like a building blocks from then as to what else used to what else did I used to think brought me joy, and just testing with them and going, oh, yeah. Actually, those things do, and those things are a good fit for my life now. And but I spent a huge amount of time just what I did for an instant was right. Well, I've just got to make my life what it was before again. And I and I did I did that initially. And then was like, well, no. None of this makes me happy anymore.
Hannah Dunn [00:27:17]:
None of this is important. None of this is meaningful. And so I really I really, really had to start with the right. That's my connection with his name is Teddy. That's the basis. Let's work out what makes us feel safe and and and loved and joyful outside of that.
James Glover [00:27:39]:
That's, just there's something soulfully simple about what you just described there in this, kind of moment of, like, pain and moment of, kind of unraveling. Actually, the the connection that you felt were this kind of sense of love actually just being the foundation. Like, I I I I've I'm looking into the eyes of this little creature, and I feel some stuff. And this is the stuff I want to feel. And then you kind of lifted your head up. Right? This is the kind of the image that's in my mind. Like, you lifted your head up, and you're looking around, and you're like, where else do I feel that kind of stuff? And you're like, right. Well, actually, maybe it was a life that we used to have.
James Glover [00:28:25]:
Let's do that. And then you're like, try it's almost like trying on the clothes again, and now they don't fit. No. No. No. Not that. No. Not that either.
James Glover [00:28:33]:
Oh, what about this? Yeah. And it it's almost like you're kind of piecing things back together again, like, from from, like, the center out, and the center is just this feeling of love that is embodied by a connection that you have with another human being, and you've used that as a barometer, as a way to calibrate what are the other experiences and where do I feel stuff that's like that. It might not be the same, but it's like that. Where do I feel stuff that's not like that? Then making some choices. No. Not anymore of that. Let's have some more of that. And actually really confronting what that does to your life in terms of the shape and the size and the experiences that sit within it.
Hannah Dunn [00:29:13]:
Yeah. 100%. And it's not been a painless or even it's been a very, very difficult journey so far, especially because it meant the breakdown of my marriage initially. And, you know, you go if I'd have done the four four years that we've done since, since since then, with the knowledge I have now, that whole four years could have been different. You know? There's there's this insightfulness and, like, knowledge, and I feel like I am gaining a bit of wisdom along the way. It wasn't there.
James Glover [00:30:00]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:30:01]:
And, you know, I reacted in whatever in in a way that my parts only knew how to react because that's how that that's how they'd helped me survive up to that point. So, yeah, what what I'm meaning with that is it, like, it wasn't a it can it wasn't like a light bulb moment, and then I've, like, made Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like, it's it's it's pay it's and I just want it to be make make, make it clear that it's real like, it's it's hard, and sometimes it's been devastating. And because she's so adamant, you're trying to get back like I say, for a period of time, I was trying to get back to a place, so I was just kinda clawing back clawing at these ways of being that I'd been and trying to see what fit. And, actually, that wasn't the right way of doing it either. So it's then, right, well, so it's it's, for me, that's why people are so reluctant to do it because of the uncomfortableness and stuff it does bring up. And, also, there's not there's not everyone, I find, is putting up quite a facade, so you don't necessarily get the feeling that everyone's out there doing the same thing.
James Glover [00:31:25]:
There's I think there's a real paradox in, like, the human experience that you're describing here, which is, yeah, massively, we don't like discomfort. And and, actually, we we kind of we seek the spaces that that that that feel like ease, and especially when it comes to emotional territory because that is some of the hardest and some of the most misunderstood. Right? So there's just something deeply human in that. But there's also something deeply human in the fact that we are the most adaptable species on the planet. So there is almost nothing that we can't overcome, like, that we can't get to the other side of. And that, actually, the kind of paradox between those two things or, like, collapsing the tension is almost knowing that you can do it, you have got it in the locker, and the willingness just to take the first step.
Hannah Dunn [00:32:18]:
Yes. A %. And then I think the key thing outside of that is the one thing we fundamentally need, and especially to make change or to try and confront emotions, all those kinds of things, is a sense of safety and connection with others.
James Glover [00:32:37]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:32:38]:
And, fundamentally I mean, this is this is why I'm so passionate about what I'm doing. That is what we're losing, and that's why people are struggling so much, and that's why the statistics are only getting worse. And that's why there's so many people on medication for this kind of thing because there's all this overload of information and sensory feeling and all these expectations and all this rush and all this busy, busy, busy. And alongside that, which, like you say, humans are adaptable, so we can cope and build and grow quite a lot. But alongside that, the togetherness and the connection with each other is going like this, and that's that's why we can't.
James Glover [00:33:22]:
Yeah. Yes. Well, it's a massive limiting factor, isn't it? Because we are a social species massively massively so. And I'm a I'm naturally a hopeful person. You don't have a kind of a podcast that's called the excitable soul and be, like, kind of pessimistic about the world around you. But I think there's one of the things that's a real opportunity, but also a real challenge around AI, for example, is that AI is a really easy way for people to interact with something else. And so there's a part of that which I think, wow, if nobody's talking and they feel like they can get some something from AI in order to be able to help them gather their own head, brilliant. But it cannot and will never.
James Glover [00:34:07]:
I don't care how sophisticated it becomes. I don't care how great robots become. There is something about the magic of the soul of a human being that can't be replicated. Like, we are greater than the sum of our parts. We are not just flesh and bone and organ and synapses. There is something that is generated beyond all of those things that you cannot touch, that you cannot directly interact with unless unless it's in this embodied state. And when you put groups of people together in a really meaningful way, the things that that that they generate are greater than the sum of the parts.
Hannah Dunn [00:34:48]:
A hundred a hundred that's that's such the most amazing way of of of putting it. And that's the because I went through a time of being like, no. No AI. No. No. No. Like, going against everything we need to be bringing back in terms of, like, community and connection and things. But then I spun it and was like, well, what if this actually becomes an opportunity
James Glover [00:35:15]:
to A way in. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:35:17]:
This AI is going to save so much time with things. What if that means then people are freer to have more meaningful connections with each other, spend more time together? And what you said, about there is something about the human nature that's outside of the physical that is what makes us human. And meditation and all all of those, mechanisms were massive and still are. They are now my they are daily practices. I've had some quite profound experiences with meditating and being able to connect with different energy centers and things. And I think there's just so much to be said about establishing that connection with yourself, albeit it can be a bit painful because your head's told you something else for such a long period of
James Glover [00:36:19]:
time. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's Jamie Peacock who's the, the captain or former captain of, the the English rugby league team, Great British rugby league team, heard him talk about choose your pain. And he's like, you it's kind of the the, short term pain, long term gain kind of old philosophy that he describes. But ultimately, he's like, every day you're making choices. Like, so when you were talking when I was saying before about you've kind of seen seen and experienced this connection that then became the barometer of the other connections you've got in your life and you were making choices, that's easy for people to hear you are making choices but in the choices comes the pain because actually some of those choices confront, the history and the comfort of the past and this kind of let's create the BAU. Let's create the business as usual where we were before. And so it's in the choices that creates the friction and and he talks about, if you make the easy choice consistently, all you're doing is pushing down the road the pain.
James Glover [00:37:26]:
And when the pain comes, because it will, it's gonna be huge. Whereas, actually, if you make a smaller, more difficult, decision, he's like, that's whether or not, you know, you have another beer. He's not saying no beer, but just another beer or whether or not you choose to wait another day to reach out to a friend or, you know, any of a million examples that we could give of the choices that we're making every single day. If you make the more more difficult one more often, actually, the pain isn't coming. It's not being stored up. It's not being so choose your pain. Go if you have a smaller amount of pain now, you're offsetting any kind of long term pain. But if you go easy all the time, all that happens is you're just storing up a whooping.
Hannah Dunn [00:38:07]:
That that is what I want to do for people because that's all I did. I just kicked I kicked my can.
James Glover [00:38:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:38:15]:
And then and and thought that once I was, like, married, got the house, have a baby, then it'll all be okay when actually that's the most difficult. And, and so many, like, so many people do go through, like, ticking off, you know, the the expectation list. And, you know, it's something I will forever deal with is the guilt associated to that because you go, I thought I was bringing another little excitable soul into the world at the time when I'd created a world around him that was gonna be great. And I hadn't into you know, internally in myself. And I thank him every day for turning that light on in me.
James Glover [00:39:12]:
Yeah. Amazing.
Hannah Dunn [00:39:13]:
So I will always have a sense of guilt in that I wasn't as prepared as I would I thought I was, if that makes sense.
James Glover [00:39:24]:
What's what's really wonderful, Hannah, is that you were exactly who you needed to be at the point in time that you were in that place. And that, actually, could you have had this journey and become this person without all of that? And the the kind of the the gift that you're giving him is also the gift that he's given you. And, like, you wouldn't have that for each other if you had arrived there in a different way at a different point in time. And so there's just something really magical and kind in being able to acknowledge that. Like, you probably shouldn't have arrived there in any other way because look at where you're at now. And and and so let's talk about the kind of the the work that you've been doing since all of this and, like, how those kind of collective choices have stacked up to an entirely different mission in your life.
Hannah Dunn [00:40:17]:
Yeah. So, so my my initial stack, which wasn't right, was, right, well, I need to just business as usual. So I went back to my old place of work, my old job, my old everything, is a bit of a an escape, and that very, very much did not fit, anymore. And so at this point, I was going through, therapy to understand and begin to feel safe enough to feel things, which predominantly is what it it does for people. And, I realized a lot about childhood experiences and things, and it made me curious about it. And through I I I've I picked up on a pattern that throughout my life, I'd always talked about the fact I wanted to teach. Well, I couldn't because I needed to earn this amount of money, or I needed to buy this house, or I needed to do this. I wish I could do this book.
Hannah Dunn [00:41:23]:
And I'd I'd I I'd picked up on a few times where I'd I'd said this. And, I was like, well, I do want different for me and for Teddy now, so I'm gonna have to learn now. So I started volunteering at a school, which is in Doncaster in a in a real challenging community. And I went through, my Thrive, training, which is all around helping children who have had trauma fill in their developmental gaps.
James Glover [00:41:59]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:42:00]:
And and and get them back on online of not being stuck in fear. And the training's great, and, I'm still a a big advocate for it, and I'm still a practitioner now. However, in in the environment, it made me and knowing what I was learning about at the time with myself, I was like, right. Well, we're dealing with probably thirty percent of children who are coming to this school and they're kicking off. They're getting their emotions out. They're showing you that they are not okay and that they're angry and they're upset. And we are, as trauma as as practitioners, helping them with that and filling in their gaps to to make them have a have a have a stable Jenga tower if you like. But what about the other percentage of kids that are still living in this challenging community, who still probably have the same adversities as those kids going, going home, but are sat there like, I'm okay.
Hannah Dunn [00:43:04]:
Yeah. Because I was that kid. So school was my safe place. And so I started bottling up feelings very, very, very early on. And so I was like, well well, what about those kids? And as I started learning all this stuff, when I was learning about myself and then retraining, I was just really angry. I was like, why do I know more about the Tudors, the Egyptians, and how are plants made up than I do about my own brain? You know? Why why did no one teach me about my nervous system and my brain as a kid? Like, why why isn't this just taught? And, that's kind of where the passion sparked for me as to something has to change. And so, I carried on at that school for, a couple of years. And whilst I was there, I did my child trauma stuff outside of that.
Hannah Dunn [00:44:09]:
I was studying coaching, and I did my coaching qualifications. I did NLP. In the midst of all that, I stayed very, very stuck in because because there was a period of time where I was in victim mentality for sure. And I was like, right. All those are you know, I went through a good year of being like, well, all of this stuff's happened to me, and that's why I'm here, where I am, and we had to work through that phase. But whilst I was there, I was labeling myself as having mental health issues, and my mental health was wrong. And I was broken. And and I was like, why do I start to think it was whilst I was doing my NLP and the importance of language.
Hannah Dunn [00:44:58]:
And I was like, right. Well, why in this crisis that we find ourselves universally on this topic when we know how important important the use of language and things is? Are we using a word like mental? And with and why we're throwing millions and billions of pounds around breaking a stigma around one word? Why did we just change the word? The the, and so I started researching when mental was first used, and the word mental was first used back in the seventeen hundreds when they built the first institution. So that's and people didn't want to go and work in that hospital because people were mental. That's where it all started.
James Glover [00:45:50]:
Mental asylum. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:45:53]:
Yeah. Well, I started to do some research as to what people still think about when they think of that word, and all the all the negativity is still there with it. And then I started to I asked the school, look. Can I research with all the kids here and see what they come up with? Because then I'll know if they call me something different. Well, oh, you are breaking the stigma. You know, the change is happening. But it didn't. Someone a a child as young as five said, not job.
Hannah Dunn [00:46:24]:
You know, they they they they it's still there. And you can go to a next level as to how things are held in our genes and all that kind of stuff. And so if you go to that depth, you you know that the stigma attached with that one word is gonna be there for multiple generations. So it's like, well, why are we allowing that? Why are we allowing for us to still hold all this negativity around this word and have people have people sit in thinking that they're broken and ill and in some way below the average person when we could just change the perspectives of how we look and feel about it. And so I started then researching what the word mind means to people, and it's it was pivotal for me. As soon as I started to think about my mind, I flipped. And I would say it was a one eight I wouldn't say, oh my gosh. Overnight.
Hannah Dunn [00:47:24]:
I was like, great. I would say, but it definitely got me on a on a big spin of the degrees that I needed to be. And when people think about the mind, it's evolving. It changes. The words that come up in the research are curious, wonder, noticing, imagination, creativity. And when these words started coming up, I was like, well, hang on a minute. All these words are words that if we could bottle up them qualities in our kids and make sure that they have them exponentially for life, we absolutely would.
James Glover [00:48:01]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:48:02]:
All of these words and these things, when we do go soul searching a little bit as adults, they're the things we're told we need to tap into more. When you go to therapy, therapy teaches you to wonder, notice, and be curious about your feelings to be able to start to process them. So I was like, it's just it I was like, this is a no brainer.
James Glover [00:48:31]:
No pun no pun intended. It's a no brainer.
Hannah Dunn [00:48:33]:
Yeah. It is. You need to, you know, change the language. So
James Glover [00:48:39]:
So it's really interesting, Hannah, just listening to you speak and describe that. Right? Because I'm having an experience of it of my own right now as you're describing it. And so where you were starting in terms of, you know, the kind of the the history of of of the kind of the language and where it comes from. I'm like, god, I've never considered that and sat with that. And, yeah, here I am, born in the nineteen eighties, child of the nineties. Like, you know, mental was definitely something that you would use to abuse somebody else with, or it would be, well, like, one of those words of, like, oh, wow. That was mental, and you're, like, cheering it on because it's something that felt like that it whatever it is, it's out there. Right? It's out there.
James Glover [00:49:16]:
And that that's in, like, a that's in a positive context when actually, like, it's that word association immediately, isn't it? Like, what comes up? And the feeling that I have is a heavy feeling. And in my brain, it's like a dark blue cloud, like a rain cloud type experience in my in my brain. So I I'm, I'm dyslexic. So I'm a bit neuro spicy. So there's like the kind
Hannah Dunn [00:49:41]:
of connection. Everything you're saying is that music to me is I'm like, oh, it's not just me.
James Glover [00:49:44]:
And then, but then you started to talk about mind and I'm like, is this just semantics? Like, does this, is this gonna make a big difference? And then as you start to describe the mind, I'm like, well, when I think of mind, I think of expansiveness. I think of space. I think of, like, territory. I think of, like I go in I go into the mind, and it's like, what am I figuring out? What am I seeing? What am I experiencing? Like, I'm in that place. And so curiosity and expansiveness were the two words I was kind of really holding when I think of mind versus mental, heavy, dark. Yeah. And even, like, the idea of mental health is, like, can you get the sunshine to break through the cloud? And, actually, it why do you need that when, actually, if I think of this word, that's not even there?
Hannah Dunn [00:50:25]:
Yeah. Exactly. And there's a there's a doctor in America, Doctor Oman, and he's been studying the brain for his whole career is is is amazing, and he's putting a lot out there about, how we can naturally heal our, brains for after trauma and things like that. And and he refers to brain health. And I'm like, that's how it should be. So from a I'm not I'm not, you know, completely deluded in in saying that there isn't ever gonna not be a medical arena for this kind of thing. Of course, there is. We're we're we're human beings.
Hannah Dunn [00:51:07]:
But in the medical sense, we should be talking our about our brain in the same way we talk about our arms, our legs, anything like that. We talk about the organ. You know? We know we know the heart is what we associate love with and our heart center, but in medically, we still talk about our heart. So why would the brain do we attach this nonphysical negative dark label?
James Glover [00:51:36]:
Well, there is an an immediate association between the brain and the mind. Right?
Hannah Dunn [00:51:39]:
Yeah.
James Glover [00:51:40]:
In a way that actually the brain and mental is a different kind of connection and connotation. And I think it's really important. You cannot underestimate the power of language. You just can't. And we all do because it's a given. It's a given. Like, we regardless of your dialect, regardless of your language, regardless of your, your the country of origin, like, part of what is differentiated as a species is our ability to communicate and therefore coordinate and collaborate and do wicked stuff. So language is is is vital.
James Glover [00:52:09]:
And the research now around emotion and language, like, it's clear. Right? It is clear. The more words you have to describe the emotional experiences you have, the greater the level of granularity, the greater the influence you have over those experiences, the greater level of awareness you have over those experiences. So it's just it's just stands to reason. Right? So the language that we then use in terms of, well, what are we really talking about? Because you can talk about something to do with the mind that is actually different to doing with talking to something that is around emotion, for example.
Hannah Dunn [00:52:42]:
%. And so for me, from the, like, medical arena, we should be talking about brain health. We should be that that's what we should be referring to. Outside the medical arena, we should be talking about mind well-being. And the reason why it became well-being, at one point, it was mind matters because I was, like, I was trying to get across the the belief of, like, that your mind matters, you matter.
James Glover [00:53:09]:
Significant. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:53:10]:
Yeah. However, when I did some more research, the the well-being side is actually when your mind's in a in good health and then it it doesn't mind being a bit still. And so what this journey should be in looking after ourselves and our mind is nurturing ourselves to be well at just being. And that that that kind of bore the the premise. And, also, when I thought, well, actually, if you're fundamentally going on a mission to try and change the language, could you hear it being changed to mind matters? No. That would seem more like the co a company slogan thing. Whereas could you envisage things where people referring to their mind well-being? Hundred percent. And so that's where it came from, and it is it's just the positivity of of the language completely changes your perspective.
Hannah Dunn [00:54:22]:
There's a definite shift internally, which I I relate with you when when you were saying that and about the colors and all that kind of thing. But, also, it's just kinda. It's compassionate. It's, you know, it it's relatable. Like, would I do I mind talking about my mind well-being? No. Yeah. Else? No. Are we more likely to talk about it together? Yes.
James Glover [00:54:47]:
Yeah. So where's where's this where's this taking you? So there's there's something about the mission of the organization, which is mind well-being and the kind of the the and it has to be, like, it has to be a mission around the language because it it requires a movement. Right? So it requires so there's something about the kind of the investment in building the movement around those things. What what what else is it? Where else is it leading you? Just kind of this exploration.
Hannah Dunn [00:55:12]:
So we have, so the overarching mission is changing the term, changing the language, mental health to mind melt, well-being, and it being the the phrase that people go to. That's a very, very lofty, lofty goal. But that's the overarching mission. Underneath that, for me, how we get there is it's prevention.
James Glover [00:55:35]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:55:35]:
And how we get there is a two pronged approach in tackling education and the workplace. Because everyone goes to school well, most people go to school, most people go to work.
James Glover [00:55:47]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:55:47]:
And, so if I touch on the education piece first, so the your core beliefs about yourself are installed between the ages of three to seven. After seven, that hardwiring's there, and you would you will default to the behaviors and the way of being based on what you've internalized as being who you are. And that that's based on the feelings you felt, the invite all of those things. Yes. That can be unwired. But anything past that age, you are changing you're trying to change something that's already there, which is more difficult.
James Glover [00:56:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:56:26]:
So we are so initially, I built some workshops around a around a character called Wonderfill, and Wonderfill wonders about the emotions that fill him. And he goes on this journey of wondering about the emotions, seeing how they impact, how he behaves, his thoughts, basic neuroscience, knowing what happens in the brain, and then how that interprets through how you use your words and connect with others. And it goes on the premise of teaching children that their words are their ones and all of this. And I trialed that in a in schools in the cohort of children that were most affected by COVID.
James Glover [00:57:12]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:57:13]:
So I did the workshops, and then I did, some training to the parents and training to the teachers. Because I had this dream of having mind well-being schools where everyone's had the training. And so because what schools are struggling with is schools are becoming like community hubs.
James Glover [00:57:31]:
Yeah. For everything. Yeah. Everything.
Hannah Dunn [00:57:34]:
Teachers are no longer just teachers of
James Glover [00:57:36]:
Well, they're feeding kids. They're clothing kids. They're like yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:57:40]:
Counselors. Everything. So the idea was right. Well, if we can get some of this training to teachers, parents, and children, then can we break some cycle here? And just in that in them workshops. So it not even being, like, embedded into day to day, but just in the workshops. And then they also they sorry. They have two daily practices. So in the mornings, they did a connecting affirmation, which is a a affirmation, but not only affirming something for yourself, it brings the class together because they're affirming it for each other.
James Glover [00:58:19]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:58:19]:
Just touch, sound, and sight, all of these things to try and embed in. And we did it for a few months, and the teachers noticed a significant improvement in emotional regulation, a significant improvement in children being kinder to one another, less disruption in class. The parent training went down really, really well, and, actually, there was a they because the the head teacher was like, good luck getting
James Glover [00:58:49]:
But wonderful wonderful that they were giving you the space to go after it, but at the same time yeah.
Hannah Dunn [00:58:55]:
Yeah.
James Glover [00:58:55]:
Yeah. Well
Hannah Dunn [00:58:57]:
And not in a not in a, like but but the you know, even in your leafy community schools, there's generally families where both mom and dad are working really hard and in, you know, high pressure jobs and all of these things. So, you know, she's like, we don't get the same presence to these things that we used to. And I I got there was a room full of of of parents that came, and it was it was really like because you stand I think you stand at the school gates, and you're like, yeah. This is great. And no one's actually really being kind of really authentic and real with experience in that moment. And it gave an environment of I I I'm very open initially as to I've been through this. This is and I now know how important all these things are. So look and we go through a training on language and all of these things.
Hannah Dunn [00:59:50]:
Now just tiny, tiny changes in the home can make massive differences if, your children see certain uses of language and all these things, and it was really impactful. So, that then bore the idea of building a full on curriculum, which is what I'm in the process of doing now, and with the view of piloting that in schools in September. I've got some researchers on board, and it's gonna be a full PSHE curriculum. At the minute, PSHE's guidelines, it's not a
James Glover [01:00:33]:
full curriculum.
Hannah Dunn [01:00:34]:
And, for me, in between the age of three and seven, like, my little boy comes home. He tells me all wonderful things about Henry VIII's wives that got their heads chopped off and stuff about an artist with all that uses all tiny dots to make up his pictures. And it's fascinating, and I find it fascinating, and it's really, really great. What it also tells me about my little boy is that he can take on information, like, so fast and a lot of it.
James Glover [01:01:07]:
Yeah. All complex.
Hannah Dunn [01:01:09]:
All complex. Yeah.
James Glover [01:01:10]:
Yes.
Hannah Dunn [01:01:10]:
So why between the ages of three to seven are we not making the understanding of yourself the primary thing? And alongside that and with doing it, yes, we're gonna teach you how to read. Yes. We're gonna teach you how to write. Yes. We're gonna teach you numeracy. Yes. We're gonna incorporate science in there. Yes.
Hannah Dunn [01:01:29]:
We're gonna incorporate drama in there. But that in them core years takes the president so that by the age of seven, you've got individuals who have a strong foundation of self, and they understand their emotions. And we so we're we're building it. The key stage one is just to focus on all the 12 core emotions. And they go on this journey with this character that's wonderful, this mindful marvel. He's like the parent character, and then there's Imogen. She's the butterfly with all the ideas. And, that's how we're trying to tackle the the the and make a difference with with the kids from a prevention point of view.
Hannah Dunn [01:02:13]:
But then in the workplace, it was like there's an app there's so part of my journey, I I did my mental health first aider course. And, again, extremely informative. Great. As a mental health first aider, not one person has ever approached me for assistance. And I do think there is a stigma of, do I really want to go and speak to the mental health first aider? You know? And again, first aid, you're putting a bandage on something.
James Glover [01:02:45]:
I was gonna say, there's there's, I'm really fortunate to work in a couple of environments where, the those people are are really accessed.
Hannah Dunn [01:02:55]:
Yeah.
James Glover [01:02:56]:
But they would tell but they would tell you that, like, that kind of that labeling actually isn't necessarily helpful given the interactions that they're having and the significance of some of what is is playing out.
Hannah Dunn [01:03:11]:
And I think there's there's definitely a place for them. And and and I think they are needed. But I think there's also a place for, I call them mind well-being champions. And they are given training around all the kind of coaching modalities. And, so it's a combination of a holistic approach, coaching modalities and NLP and neuroscience in just promoting well-being within the within the, within the workplace and trying to give adults the same knowledge as the children in a more comprehensive way. And I think there's so many adults out there that are trying to do that on their own in their spare time and struggling doing it on their own in their spare time because no one has a lot of spare time. There's so much going into I think workplaces are a lot better now at the well-being, side of things. I do think a lot of them go, oh, that course looks great, and that ticks that box rather than actually knowing what their their their, workforce workforce needs.
Hannah Dunn [01:04:32]:
So I built a a six module program for mind well-being champions, which I'm now trialing in some different workplaces to have another arena. And so the idea is over time, each of these things build to create, a much more positive, approach and methodology indeed with it.
James Glover [01:05:01]:
And I and I guess there are a couple of things here that I've just I really love, just personal just personal reaction. One is this sense of, in the in the classroom going for the kind of the triumvirate of the the pupil, the teacher and the parent and bringing all of them together around that experience. And, you know, we are of a generation, I say we, of those that are the same age as me who are like in their, you know, 40s now and their early 50s who who have been the most developed generation as in we've been exposed to the most development opportunities. And so we are more aware and we do understand, but no way does that make us better practiced and and give us so, actually it creates a bit of a problem. It creates a bit of a frustration. We're like, shit. Like I know there's some stuff that I need to be doing here because I'm fucking up right now. And I don't know why, what to do.
James Glover [01:05:56]:
So So actually bringing, like, people together in a way of, like, oh, okay. Cool. This is answering that question for me in a really practical way. And also the the the kind of the work with kids is about personal understanding, but also collective experience. So this idea of practices, you know, whether it's in education or whether it's in the workplace, practices are critical because they're the things that you know, practices ultimately turn into habits and habits, whether you like it or not, are what drives ninety five, ninety seven percent of behavior. So if you're creating a collective practice in the room where everybody is doing the same thing at the same time, feeling the same way, then you're immediately creating that sense of social identity, social cohesion, which that in its own right is transformative going through your life. Oh, look. I feel this stuff with these people, and it feels good.
James Glover [01:06:42]:
Let's do more of that. Like, that's that's that's mega. And I also acknowledge the challenge of translating that into into working environments and the sophistication of the working environment as to whether or not they will take that on or be willing to take that on and what the competing commitments and agendas are. But the fact that what you're speaking to there as well is is the same thing as the parent motivation. It's the personal motivation. Yeah. I am struggling with some stuff, and I just need some help to figure that out because I don't have an understanding of how my brain works. I don't have an understanding of how my brain works and the way that that shapes the feeling experiences that I'm having and how that shapes my behavior, even though I'm probably not feeling some stuff or behaving in some ways that I would like to.
Hannah Dunn [01:07:25]:
Yeah. What
James Glover [01:07:26]:
how do I do something about that? And so creating and I and I guess whether whether the, the kind of the first data versus the champion creates a shift, like, what I'm really hearing from you is about the connection that's generated by those by those people. Like, they are they're driving they're driving interconnection in a really human way.
Hannah Dunn [01:07:47]:
That's it. And that's that's the driving force around it. Because, again, the companies and workplaces are so much better now at providing courses, but we all like, I can spend an hour listening to a coach, listening to an inspiring thing on YouTube, listening which, believe me, I spent a couple years doing that and thinking that that was working. I've got to be honest, I'm taking in the information. I'm doing nothing. Yeah. And so and a hours training, two hours training is not gonna have the impact. Like, you know, I think your mental health first aider training is, like, two full days to become a first aider, and that's a real condensed training, which is it's it's a it's an intense two day for anyone to place it on.
Hannah Dunn [01:08:35]:
Whereas I go, right, well, if you're asking workplaces to commit to having, some champions and they do seven hours training across a year Yeah. So the the the training sessions are very much I'm trying to make them so they're, like, ninety days apart and so that we can build habits in those ninety days apart. And they're doing it with people, and then they're hopefully spreading it to their teams.
James Glover [01:09:05]:
Well, it feels like the it feels like the principle difference there, Hannah, is it goes back to the word that you used almost at the beginning of this conversation, which is the forever evolution. Like, this isn't something that goes away in organizations because organizations are groups of people. And so as long as people need this, organizations are gonna need this. So, you know, the the the kind of the training exposure over a over a year is the beginning of the journey for those individuals that ultimately continues for as long as they want to hold that role in their life because they're gonna continue like, it's the same. Now I've been I've been a coach qualified since 2013, and I still have supervision every month because, man, I'm coming across stuff that I've never come across before, or I'm going into areas that I just need to learn more, or the world has changed around me, and how do I apply that to the to the to the craft that that that that I feel is central to the value I create in the world. So there's something again that's the shift that you're creating here, which is it's not a one and done thing. It's a forever evolution.
Hannah Dunn [01:10:07]:
It is. And that that's something I'm having to manage personally all the time because I go as we as we touched on before, I think or press press record. I have been on a reflection point of, you know, this is a this is a a massive project, and this is a lifetime this is a forever revolution. So we take one step at a time, and making sure I take care of myself whilst doing it. And so there's that approach, but then there is also a very married up urgency about it.
James Glover [01:10:39]:
Yeah. Because
Hannah Dunn [01:10:40]:
you go, you know, I went to a conference, before Chris well, to the back end of next last year, and it was all about the what's next. And, a speaker there said, right. Well, by the time your children leave school, I live in Doncaster, Forty Percent of the jobs in Doncaster will be done by AI. You know, that's that's that's huge. And and the next week, I went to skills and education conference, and it was really, really refreshing that the future of education looks to be a lot more aligned with what my vision is, which was reassuring. But then there were members of the workplace community who were like, we don't even know what what's this approach. We don't even know what you're talking about, and we see that you're gonna create more disjointed individuals to our workplace. And it and that did it does create the urgency.
Hannah Dunn [01:11:33]:
Well, no. You you need to change now because, otherwise, with how fast the world's moving around us, we're gonna have a generation of adults who age really fast and become quite angry and resentful really fast because the job market and the industrial industries are gonna change really, really fast.
James Glover [01:11:55]:
Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [01:11:56]:
And unless we give them people a different perspective of looking at things and a toolkit to navigate how we can manage them changes and see them in a positive way. I think it's it could be awful.
James Glover [01:12:16]:
And and I think the bit that that sits with me, Anna, is this sense of hope. Like, creating the hopefulness, creating the optimism about what might be possible in the future because, like, we don't know. Alright? And we don't know. And so, you know, if you go back to the previous part of our conversation, we don't like uncertainty because we don't like change because those things kind of provoke fear, and we don't and there's some gonna be some pain associated with it. So choose your pain. Like, let's let's figure out how we are and how we feel in this moment. Let's think about, you know, to your point, being present in the in the kind of the environment. You know, where is my mind at the moment? Like, I'm a I'm a bit of a fanboy of Tony Robbins, and there's definitely some judgment associated with that in some quarters, but I think he's an incredible he has an incredible ability to be able to translate really concept complex concepts in a way that's simple for people to understand.
James Glover [01:13:13]:
And he talks about focus. He's like, you know, just think about the timeline of focus. Where do you focus today? Were you focused in yesterday? Or are you focused on tomorrow? Because if you focused on yesterday, it's probably not in a good way. It's probably because you didn't do something or something didn't happen, and therefore, it creates a sense of anxiety or frustration or irritation. And if you're not focused on today, you're not focused on the past, you're probably focused on tomorrow. What do I need to get? What don't I have? Like and in both of those cases, they just create deficit. So how do we focus in on today and where we are today? Like, what might that mean for our kind of health and readiness to be able to deal with whatever comes? Because guess what? We will be able to adapt to it. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [01:13:57]:
A %. And I think that's that that's it. I think it's the getting that across, like, that we can change and we can adapt. And, that certainly come across in some of the workshops that I did in January to guys who you'd think were very much of the frame of mind that, no. You know? Yeah. He's set in his ways or, you know, that kind of thing. And they were like, oh, no. You you know, one particular man who it'll stick with me for for life.
Hannah Dunn [01:14:32]:
He started the I started talking, and he he crossed his arms. He rolled his eyes. And, you know, you're like, right. Well, you've checked out.
James Glover [01:14:42]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah Dunn [01:14:44]:
And then by the end, he was the one who came over when everyone had gone and gone. Could I have some information off your slides? And, actually, you've you've made me understand my wife and my teenage daughter loads better. I feel like I can see things from a different perspective. And you get people can. You know? We can change our minds till the day we die, albeit it might be more difficult, as we get older. We can, but we need the awareness that we can, an understanding of how this works a little bit, and then the support network is the all the people are doing the same and and are willing to be open about it. And I think that's the bit. I think in silos, people are trying.
Hannah Dunn [01:15:28]:
People are trying to do the work, trying to, but, like, I don't I don't want to talk about the fact I wasn't doing it before, so I'm not gonna talk about it. Whereas if we're kind of a bit more all on the journey together, it makes it easier and more fun.
James Glover [01:15:44]:
Yeah. Big time. And I think that's probably the perfect place for us to to pause our conversation and, just, like, massive, massive thank you for for being with us today. And for all of those listening, those that want to be involved in the movement, those that want to kind of understand and learn more, all links will be in the show notes. But are you also across all the socials, Hannah?
Hannah Dunn [01:16:07]:
I am. Yep. So I'm on Instagram, at mind well-being c I c, LinkedIn, Hannah Dunn at mind well-being c I c, and Facebook. Yeah. So
James Glover [01:16:18]:
Amazing. Brilliant. So let's get on the mission team. Let's change the language around us. Thank you very much, Hannah.
Hannah Dunn [01:16:24]:
Thank you so
James Glover [01:16:27]:
much. Massive thank you for taking the time to listen to the excitable soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding, sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs at theexcitablesoul.com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.