Episode #38 James & Rebecca

Exploring the Art of Storytelling to Unleash Your Unique Sense of Purpose

Welcome back to The Excitable Soul Podcast!

In today's episode, we are joined again by my sister, Rebecca, for an honest and lively kitchen table conversation.

Together we jump into the world of storytelling as we explore its significance in finding meaning and purpose in our lives.

Listen as we discuss how storytelling enriches our understanding of ourselves and others, connecting us on a deeper level.

Discover the power of narratives, the difference between sense making and meaning making, and how our experiences shape the fabric of our identity.

Read the transcript here

James Glover [00:00:09]:

Alrighty. Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.

James Glover [00:00:44]:

So let's get going, shall we? Alright, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the excitable soul podcast. And, regrettably, I'm being joined by Rebecca again for one of our, kitchen table conversations. And this one feels like it's gonna be more sibling rivalry than ever before because if you just have been anyway party to the thirty seconds before we press go on the recording, I was getting grief for not having really paid attention to our sibling WhatsApp chat. And I've gotta be honest with you. I'm not I can't I don't understand for it.

Rebecca [00:01:24]:

I would I'd really be careful, James, about, picking your battles because I will crack the floor with you on this one, and you don't wanna look silly on your own podcast. That's what I'm saying.

James Glover [00:01:34]:

It's true. I don't wanna look silly on my podcast. Alright? And, and I fully believe that you can and would wire the floor with me should you choose to. And this is in stark contrast from where I was expecting to start on this contract this podcast, which is, actually, you've had your hair cut. It looks ace.

Rebecca [00:01:51]:

Yeah. Thanks.

James Glover [00:01:52]:

But instead of instead of that being the start point, the very fact that apparently I didn't notice that you shared a picture of your haircut on our WhatsApp has started something of a debate.

Rebecca [00:02:03]:

And the whole story about it. Like, it was a whole conversation, which might I add, Joseph replied to. So you just look bad in comparison.

James Glover [00:02:12]:

Yeah.

Rebecca [00:02:13]:

Especially now that you're like

James Glover [00:02:15]:

I've like

Rebecca [00:02:16]:

that never happened.

James Glover [00:02:17]:

Straight up no recollection of that whatsoever. And, actually, I think it's it's potentially a good segue for us into into kind of our area of discussion today, which is storytelling. Storytelling is part of meaning making and, therefore, how storytelling is fundamental in our ability to uncover, understand, and really unleash our sense of purpose. We're fresh off the back of having run one of our executive purpose immersion programs, and we've kind of spent that time, really in this territory of kind of data collection and the data being the experiences that people have had that have really shaped who they are and then wrestling with, the way in which those experiences are playing out in this moment and how they can start to utilize them going forward in the future. And it's always really fascinating to us how you can kind of drop down through the layers of storytelling and kind of become more and more drawn in to understanding somebody and getting to know them and feeling connected to them just by them telling stories of their experience, which is a no brainer. Right? Because that's kind of how we've been creating connection and belonging for thousands of years. So we thought we'd chat a bit about it.

Rebecca [00:03:38]:

I'm really passionate about it actually on lots of different levels. Like, and this this is the thing that I love about the the work at the excitable soul. Right? You you can think on a surface level. Oh, yes. Storytelling is important. We tell stories because it mines information. But actually when you unpick it, it works on so many different levels. Like, it is integrated into your identity.

Rebecca [00:04:00]:

Like, you you form your identity from making meaning in the world from all of the stories, from making sense of the things around you. And you connect with the people around you by telling those stories, by getting them to empathize with you. And and and I'm sure that we're gonna talk about it across this blog, but that works on a on a very basic level of I'm communicating with you, but on a psychological level, on a on a, yeah, just so many different different aspects to it. And also, I I love reading. I love stories. And, you know, both sort of fictional, nonfiction, talking to people and picking how they see the world. And I and I was thinking about this, James, a while ago, and it goes right back to, like, my fine art degree that was always that that was about language, that was about connecting with somebody. So, yeah, it runs through this work and through me.

Rebecca [00:04:56]:

I'm I'm excited.

James Glover [00:04:59]:

Well, I'm gonna just probably be quiet for a bit and let Beck tell us all about Steph, which, which is, yeah, great. Happy to do that. But I but before we do that and before we dive into that, I think there is a very real world context that we need to kind of put this within at the moment, that stories shape our reality not necessarily because they are based on fact, but because they help us make sense of what's happening. And, the carnage that is the world that we live in, especially from a geopolitical perspective right now, is born out of people being able to take tell stories that capture the attention and capture the emotion and motivation of individuals without there necessarily being any substance to them at all. And so when we talk about the realistic power of story, they can they can create divides. They can create fear. They can create animosity to the point of war. And what's really important for us to consider is that none of that necessarily is based on detailed factual information that is irrefutable by any person at any point in time.

James Glover [00:06:21]:

It can just be a fabric of somebody's imagination in the moment.

Rebecca [00:06:24]:

And often it is. But there there's a a really good quote. There's a really good quote from, Dan p McAdams, and I'm I'm gonna keep coming back to him because I'm in the midst of his his book, The Stories We Live By. And he says that, stories are less about facts and more about meanings. In the subject in the subjective and embellished telling of the past, the past is constructed and history is made. So you can look at that from a personal level of, I'm making sense of my own life, and I tell the stories from my perspective. So every single thing that I have experienced, another person that was there at the same moment in time may tell a completely different story about it. However, it's my truth.

Rebecca [00:07:09]:

Right? It's how I how I've seen it. So when I tell it to you, your understanding of that event is based on what I've said unless you were there. So you're you're constructing history. But also right down to I mean, I don't want to get political about it, but you you have world leaders that just make stuff up. And and there are people that genuinely, they weren't there or they they haven't read around the problem, and therefore, they take they take that understanding. You are you are assigning meaning based on somebody else's story. So the like you're saying, the ramifications of how we make sense and how we tell stories is huge.

James Glover [00:07:45]:

Yeah. Yeah. And and one of the great things about being able to differentiate the fact between facts and stories is that, because we're meaning making animals as human beings, because we're constantly trying to make sense of the world around us and our place within it, Where there are gaps in fact, we fill it with story. So it's not the complete absence of fact. Often there can be some facts in there, and it's just us going, well, I need to understand where I fit with all of that. What does that look like? Which then is based on your past experience and a whole bunch of biases and assumptions that you're making on your worldview. Like, you are family to me, and therefore, if you tell me something, I have a greater level of emotional attachment to whatever it is you are telling me than some complete stranger that I've never met before, especially when you say, hey. Wow.

James Glover [00:08:38]:

You look good in that. Or, you're you're the greatest, you're the greatest brother in the history of siblings and less when you say things like, you're wrong. Yeah.

Rebecca [00:08:52]:

Yeah. I mean, you've got definitely got a warped view of stuff there, given that you didn't even know that I got my haircut.

James Glover [00:08:59]:

Which is the point that we're making. Right? Which is the point that we're making. Ultimately, if you think about it from a neuroscientific perspective and if you use, like, perception science and, you know, quote, perception scientists and neuroscientists like, they would just be able they would just tell you that nobody is seeing the world in the same way ever, and there's no way of being able to prove that we are because you can't get in somebody's head. Like, your brain lives inside a dark box, and it's entirely reliant on its senses to put data into that dark box. And then it tries to figure out that data and go, oh, look, a banana or whatever it may be that that the kind of the data is telling us. And we live in a rich, complex, multifaceted existence, and your brain is trying to simplify things down so that you can comprehend them and operate within them. So it is something that is a wonderfully designed evolutionary mechanism that can be hoodwinked very quickly and very simply.

Rebecca [00:09:57]:

Yeah. And it has it has different different purposes, different implications, three of which are, a search for understanding. So making sense of an event. You know, you kind of something has happened. I I have to place myself within it, and I have to understand that within a context. So you you create a story. You create meaning around why you're there. In contrast to, having control, you know, so in in the same sort of same sort of, in the same sort of vein, things can happen through fate, right, or through through circumstance.

Rebecca [00:10:38]:

And often people assign a meaning to it so that they can cope. They create a story around it. I think that that's most prevalent if you get a serious illness or an accident or huge things happen. So you you create a story around like that. This was meant to be or I felt like something wasn't right or, you know, everything was just going too fast and this was this was just a way of stopping time so that I could make sense and slow down and realize the things that are important. You know? We're like, well, actually, somebody would have seen the exact same event in a different way. And also for, like, to bolster your self esteem, to understand where you fit within what you see as progress, I suppose. So you create stories in comparison to other people, whether that serves you well or not.

Rebecca [00:11:25]:

You know? Actually, I'm doing alright in this moment because Sandra down the road did the same thing, and she buckled. And I'm still here, and I'm still going for it. Or, you know, may maybe I could do better because x, y, and zed people went through this, and they could you know, see, it's it's all the time we talk back to its meaning making, but it's meaning making for different situations for different purposes to give you a different outcome.

James Glover [00:11:52]:

And maybe it's worth us separating out two things that can be conflated but actually are definitely different, which is the kind of the process of sense making and the process of meaning making, which is, and I was I was talking to a good friend of mine who's been a guest on this podcast, before, And he was talking about, I can give you the seven stages of sense making from a learning and development and brain cognition perspective. And I was like, yeah. I bet you can because, actually, there are some there's some real mechanics in the way that the brain is trying to to make sense of the data and the information that's coming to it. What we see and understand about meaning making versus sense making is that the meaning making is how we assign significance and importance to certain, events or people or situations or circumstances. There is, there is an there is another level or another layer to the sense making process, which is of our choosing. But interestingly, not necessarily of our conscious awareness because we can assign meaning to things reactively, and, we can assign meaning to things in a way that actually is serving us at certain points in time, but then not others, and not necessarily be consciously aware of the fact that we've gone, oh, that's really significant. That's really important, until way further down the track when we actually pause and look back and go, why is it that other people's expectations are critical to me? At what point did I say that was meaningful? And there's something in your kind of sense making journey where the validation, the appreciation, the recognition, the lack of those things from somebody else created an emotional reaction and response. And the sense making was shit.

James Glover [00:13:53]:

The absence of that is painful, and the presence of that feels really wonderful. So let's have more of it, please. And then over because we haven't gone alright. There's a part of this which, creates a sense of belonging to others and that's critical for me and my survival as a human being and therefore, I should really think about how and where I am getting that kind of connection. We just go, oh, yeah. Meaning the approval of others is good. Do it. Do it.

James Glover [00:14:19]:

Do it. Do it. It gets to the point where it becomes out of hand. And all of a sudden, what you think about yourself doesn't matter, but what other people think about you is the difference between, you know, positive and negative in all kinds of painful and horrendous ways.

Rebecca [00:14:38]:

So this is where it takes a bit of a shift. Right? So so far, we've talked quite a lot about how we construct stories, I suppose, or use stories to to make sense of the the situation that we're either in or have been in over a period of time. We then also take stories as a tool, don't we? We use it, in order to collect data, and it can have this really, really profound effect because like you've just explained really eloquently, you know, you don't often take the time or don't often consciously see where you have assigned meaning over time until you until you until you stop and and share your stories with somebody else or take the time to actually unpick your stories yourself. And this is where you start to spot patterns. No. The stories that I tell, they're a reoccurring theme. They're like, the the the stories that spring to mind, it's that's just as important, isn't it? Of everything that's happened to me, the myriad of stories I've got to tell, these are the ones that pop into my head. And it it then becomes a tool that can be used.

Rebecca [00:15:48]:

Do you want to explain a bit more about how we do that?

James Glover [00:15:50]:

Well, I yeah. And I think the, there are a couple of bits here that I get really excited about too in that, you know, we fanboy, fangirl about Brene Brown every other podcast. At some point, she might hear one of these and just, you know, graciously say thanks. But, we'll just we'll just get giddy about her work, Well, she just talks about stories of data with a soul, and and the way in which we try to help people understand is that their their experiences are the data. But when they tell the story of those experiences, what happens is they they they start to see the information that's coded and hidden within the experiences. And then if they tell enough of those stories, if there's enough data, the information starts to really turn into insight and knowledge. Like, oh, these are the repeating themes that just come up time and time again, which is where you can then start to find real wisdom in the experiences that you've had and that kind of wisdom that you can then take forward and apply meaningfully into your life going forward. You know, you you've got a, a really brilliant quote from Antonio Damasio where he talks about storytelling is the solution to making wisdom understandable, transmissible, persuasive, and memorable.

James Glover [00:17:11]:

So if you get to the point where you've mined the data, you've got the information, you've started to see the knowledge, and then you can really feel and, articulate the wisdom, all of a sudden the impact that that has on you and others is, well, I can share it with you so you can understand me because I understand me. And it's it's persuasive because it carries weight. There's depth to it. There's richness to it because there's emotion connected to it. And that's the thing that that we remember as human beings is when you tell me a story that feels like it's got soul, that's got emotion in it, it's gonna hit me in the soul and provoke emotion, and therefore, I'm more readily gonna remember it. So the power in that process is is colossal.

Rebecca [00:18:01]:

It's interesting that you say that because you do genuinely feel what what's being told to you in a story, what you read in a story. The the it's back to the mirror neurons keep learn about them. I was like, this is amazing. They're, like, they're, like, neurons in your brain that literally mirror the emotion and the the studies that have been shown that when you read a passage that talks about physical pain, you feel that the the same areas of your brain light up as if you were actually experiencing that pain, which is why, when I'm listening to certain stories, we're in the middle of listening to, a certain set of, of audiobooks. I'm literally in my car.

James Glover [00:18:48]:

Not trying to say dragon smut, are you? No.

Rebecca [00:18:52]:

I was driving in my car.

James Glover [00:18:53]:

You wanna you wanna hear a really, really awkward story. Beck and I both read we're both listening listening to these these novels by, Rebecca Yoris, which are about, a kind of a a mythical like, they're a cross between The Hunger Games and Game of Thrones. Right? It's like they're brilliant, and they're really captivating. But there's definitely a high level of kind of intimacy in some of the scenes. And so Rebecca and I were in the car together. We're both listening to them, and we're driving down the road. And the chapter moves to one of these moments between the two main characters where they start to engage in the, you know, the the passionate act of love. And there was a moment where in my head I start going, yeah, I don't think I wanna listen to this with my sister in the car.

James Glover [00:19:44]:

And then I'm like, no. I'm an adult. I'm nearly 45 years old and she's an adult too and we're both parents. Like, this is just part of the novel. Like, be a grown up about it. And that particular thought lasted seven seconds because then it got even more graphic, and I was like, no. No. I definitely don't wanna listen to this with my little sister.

James Glover [00:20:03]:

So I just turned around to Rebecca and went, think I'm gonna skip this bit if that's okay. And you just wet yourself laughing at me. I went, yes. That would be good.

Rebecca [00:20:13]:

It it was it was, courage chicken, wasn't it? Like, who can take last a long time? Yeah. And then once once you'd pulled the plug on it, once you were like, no. I can't do this. And you were you were pressing fast forward. It was like every time you took your finger off fast forward and then, like, the words came out. And

James Glover [00:20:30]:

it's like, no.

Rebecca [00:20:31]:

It's not over. It's not over.

James Glover [00:20:34]:

Oh, the head of nothing. The head of nothing.

Rebecca [00:20:41]:

Yeah. Anyway

James Glover [00:20:42]:

Anyway. Yes.

Rebecca [00:20:43]:

That actually demonstrates my point because I was gonna say when I'm listening to it on my own, driving along, I'm like I'm like, kill him. Kill him. You can take him down. Strike your lightning. Like, it's like, filled with rage, filled with, like, genuine bloodlust, which I would say was out of character. Some people might disagree.

James Glover [00:21:10]:

Too hard though.

Rebecca [00:21:12]:

Faraway series out of character. But the whole reason for that is because I'm I'm literally experiencing the things that I'm reading. Now the same thing applies. Stop laughing at me. The same thing applies when you share any stories about your life because they are just as engaging. So when you are genuinely listening to somebody and you are taking on board, like, the the the moments that they deem worthy enough to share, you know, that they think are significant enough to to recount, you're with them in that moment. And although people and the more that you share, the easier that that is. No.

Rebecca [00:21:48]:

In the same way with a novel, you get more and more connected because you describe it in such detail that means that you can put yourself there. So the the the beauty of the retreats, that the excitable soul does is it creates an entire environment by which it's, a, this is a safe space, and b, you are cut off from everything because now is the time to delve into it. Like, I don't want the glyph notes. I want the novel. You know? Tell me exactly why that story. How did it feel in the moment? Like, what is it about that? Which is why it's really good to share a story with somebody else so that they can be that critical coach to ask the questions, to delve deeper, to make you kind of go, yeah. I I hear I hear what you're saying. I feel that.

Rebecca [00:22:35]:

Tell me more about this. You know? Like, give give me give me another perspective to that. Because as you say it out loud, you're often going, Yeah. I'm reliving that as I'm telling it, and I'm seeing this. And, actually, you're right. In the stories that I've chosen to tell, this is something that I talk about a lot. And it and and, actually, in there's a correlation between my bad bits, you know, the the the the not good moments, the stories that I want to tell that were hurtful, and they're hurtful because they are the opposite of the things that were really good. I mean, so even in that, there is a there is a theme.

Rebecca [00:23:14]:

You know? The absence of something. You know? And when you tease out these things, you kind of go, you know, these stories aren't isolated. They're very much so connected.

James Glover [00:23:25]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, ladies and gents, we have we we've kind of, danced around things a little bit here, but just to kind of summarize a little bit what we're what we're trying to describe here is that the reason why we work with purpose is because it is a felt experience and just a simple deep human need. We need to find meaning, and we need to feel belonging, and those things come by being able to reflect on the experiences that have really shaped who you are. And part of the way in which you can shape and understand the experiences that you've had is by telling the story of those experiences and being able to pick apart the elements of them that have really stayed with you because of their importance and their their significance, whether that's positive or negative. And the process of telling a story is one that from a neuroscience perspective, we're just proving out the things that we've known for thousands of years, which is we are conveying a colossal amount of information in a very, very efficient way. If the human being has evolved to do anything really well, it's it's we're an efficiency machine.

James Glover [00:24:49]:

We look for a way of being able to minimize the effort in stuff because it helps us use our resources differently. So if you can tell somebody a story, which is a really effective and efficient way of us being able to communicate, and within that, we're giving them information that's both intellectual, it's useful, but also a motive, so it's significant and it's feeling based and they're gonna remember it, then that's a pretty good way of being able to to to to transfer insight, transfer information. And that's just stayed with us for for thousands of years. But the brilliant thing about being able to utilize this from a purpose perspective is that once you've started to get to that level of understanding and insight around what is really meaningful to you, where where and how you have assigned meaning, there's that that wisdom carries forward over time. As it was true in the past, it'll be true in the future. And so then you can start to think about going forward into the unknown with a sense of faith and belief in what might be possible rather than just factually what is. Because as we discussed right at the very beginning of this podcast, most of the stories we tell aren't based in fact at all. And actually, that kind of emotional resonance of, no, I really believe this to to be true means that you can go into uncertainty because there isn't any fact there either.

James Glover [00:26:13]:

So it's almost a future hack that we just don't make the most of as human beings, which is the tool element that we would describe in Bec. What what are the things that feel like they're really important for people just to kinda sit with and wrestle with and just kind of make these insights feel really real, Bec?

Rebecca [00:26:33]:

For me, it's it's a couple of things. Firstly, it's a level of acceptance that storytelling is not indulgent. It's very much so, a very human experience that you have developed an ability to do over time. Like, you can't tell stories or understand stories as a small child in the same way that you can, like a story about yourself. You go you go through developmental stages in in how you are understanding the world beyond yourself. And that that is okay. I think a lot I think people do often I don't want to talk about myself. You know? Or, or or when they start talking about themselves, they then feel almost guilt.

Rebecca [00:27:22]:

I've been talking about myself for too long. You know? So I think that there is a huge element of, don't feel like that. You know?

James Glover [00:27:29]:

Freedom is an issue. Yeah.

Rebecca [00:27:31]:

Yeah. That is that is that is a really important thing to do. And that, actually, it doesn't matter where you are on this purpose journey, whether you haven't started it yet and you're intrigued, whether you've started exploring it, but you haven't nailed the purpose statement, or whether you've been through the program and you're kind of like, I've nailed I've nailed what I think my purpose is, and you're navigating living with one. Stories still hit play play a huge a huge role. It it helps to qualify your feelings about things. You know? I'm having a gut reaction. I feel really upset about this thing that's happened, or I'm really excited about this, and I'm not sure why. And when you play that back with almost like a, a lens of the of the purpose that you've developed, you kind of go, is it connected? You know? Am I feeling excited because actually it's enabling me to do what I've already established is right at the core of me, or do I feel bad because, actually, this isn't in alignment? And a very weak example of this is bringing it back to my head, and you not not having not having seen the WhatsApp group.

Rebecca [00:28:44]:

Rubbing it. You know, just bringing it back, any opportunity. When I went to the hairdressers, there was a really, really lovely hairdresser. I have a different hairdresser every single time I go. And we've been chatting for quite a while, and she asked me what my star sign was. I was like, oh, I'm Aries. And she said, oh, you are so an Aries. Right? So I was like, oh, interesting.

Rebecca [00:29:08]:

Not sure where that's going. What what makes me an Aries? And then she went on to say, yeah, Aries are very and then she did a facial expression, which, it's a bit like this, which basically made that I looked stuck up and, bit of a resting bitch face is what she was doing on her face. But then you get talking to them, and they're lovely. The life and soul doing something weird on the dance floor. And I sat there and went, wow. I'm not sure. That's definitely an insult. It's just like like, I am lovely.

Rebecca [00:29:44]:

Like, you don't need to get to know me for me to be lovely. Like, I'm nice from the onset. So what's my face doing that doesn't suggest that? And I've told this story mostly to make people laugh. I've told it to everybody that would listen because I'm like, this person thinks I look like this. But actually, when I play it back with my purpose statement, which is to creatively captivate so that people feel seen and can see. Why I think it's funny is what are people seeing when they look at me? You know, like, what at what point do I cut through that first impression to be able to actually actually engage with somebody. And I think, you know, as much as that is a silly example, that it is an example of how that works, you know. Like, there's something intriguing about this moment, you know.

Rebecca [00:30:34]:

There's something about, you know, me just telling that story is to make people laugh, is to connect

James Glover [00:30:38]:

with something. That's true. And, yes, there is something funny about it and, you know, you doing it to make people laugh. Totally agree. But also in you being able to recount it and you being able to share it and you'd be able to kind of reflect on it, that there is the opportunity there that to turn around and go, maybe you're not doing anything, and this was about that person. So there is something here that you don't need to acknowledge, that you don't need to own, that isn't yours to carry, that is actually about them, and be able to confront that. Because as many people would then hold on to those comments made by somebody else and internalize those comments made by somebody else and start to see themself through the eyes of those people, actually, you've just kind of gone to that place of going, hey. I think I say my purpose is this, and I I wanna be able to do this.

James Glover [00:31:30]:

And is this a blocker to me being able to

Rebecca [00:31:32]:

do that? My face. Like Yeah. Yeah.

James Glover [00:31:34]:

Yeah. My face. So but and so that already, you've started to go, how how am I assigning meaning to what I'm hearing here? And it gives you the choice. I think that's what's really important here is is it gives you the choice. The other thing that's really important here is that I just checked the WhatsApp messages. Not only did I not ignore you, I actually responded and said, how lovely your hair looked. However, I had had four beers by that time because I was out on Saturday night, and therefore, I have absolutely no recollection.

Rebecca [00:32:09]:

You've just increased the amount of beers that you had had by that point because you you didn't have four.

James Glover [00:32:16]:

I know. I had no. Yeah. I had three. No. I no. No. I think because I'm because of where I was in the time, I think I'd had four.

James Glover [00:32:25]:

Mhmm. And and ladies and gents, if you are any any confusion, there is a big difference to my cognitive capability between the third beer and the fourth beer. What you should really be asking yourself is what happens between the fourth and the fifth beer. Now we're talking.

Rebecca [00:32:40]:

No one wants to hear that story, James.

James Glover [00:32:42]:

No. They don't or see it in action. Lordy loo. Doesn't happen often. Anyway, I think we should probably call it there. For those that are still listening, thank you for staying connected to to to to our opportunity for kind of really voicing how and why we think storytelling is just a critical enabler of people being able to find meaning and connection in their lives and how that can shape their understanding of a sense of purpose and how their understanding of their purpose can evolve over time. And so until next time. Thanks, babe.

James Glover [00:33:22]:

Massive thank you for taking the time to listen to the excitable soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding, and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs at theexcitablesoul.com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.