Episode #29 Lawrence Harris

From Expedition Leader to Entrepreneur: Embracing Risks and Finding Purpose

Welcome to another episode of The Excitable Soul Podcast! Today we have an extraordinary guest: Lawrence Harris. Lawrence, also known by his adventurous alter ego "Hoopla," has led a fascinating life marked by both daring expeditions and profound personal growth.

In this episode, Lawrence shares his purpose journey from his early struggles with education, and the pivotal moments that took him from feeling like a failure, to discovering his passion for outdoor education. We explore how his father’s encouragement led him to build practical skills and qualifications which helped him rebuild his confidence.

As we journey through Lawrence’s transition from the wild adventures of "Hoopla" to entrepreneurship and responsibility, you'll hear about his struggles with conventional sales jobs, the unwavering support of his family, and his eventual success in founding WRS International.

Lawrence reflects on finding purpose, the value of taking risks, and the importance of balancing his adventurous spirit with family responsibilities.

Get ready to be inspired by a narrative that underscores the continuous quest for purpose and personal growth.

Stay tuned—this is an episode you won't want to miss!

Links in the episode:

Lawrence on LinkedIn

WRS International BV

Read the transcript here

James Glover [00:00:09]:

Alrighty. Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.

James Glover [00:00:44]:

So let's get going, shall we? Welcome to today's podcast where we explore the journey of Lawrence Hoopla Harris, a former expedition guide turned entrepreneur and director at WRS International. Lawrence's path from white water guide to a leader in water rescue innovation is a story of adventure and passion. Throughout his life, Lawrence has been driven by a pioneering spirit. And as climate change creates new challenges for rescue teams worldwide, his commitment to outdoor safety and helping others drive a seamless transition from an adventurous outdoorsman to a forward thinking business leader. He is dedicated to enhancing the global water rescue capabilities. And leading WRS International, he combines hands on experience with cutting edge technology to ensure that those rescue professionals have the tools they need to do the work that is more important now than ever. Join us as we dive into Lawrence's journey, how his love of adventure led him to a deeper purpose, and how that purpose shapes his work today. Enjoy.

James Glover [00:01:57]:

Welcome everybody to the Excitable Soul podcast. Today is a real treat, mostly for me, but definitely for you guys too. I've got Lawrence Hoopla Harris on the, on the podcast today who is just an incredible human being, and is one of those people who is, a, not a fighter pilot, but, b, has one of those, like, nicknames that just gets sandwiched in the middle of his name. How do you how do you do that? How do you get to be one of those top gun people, hoops, without without flying a fighter jet? I don't understand it.

Lawrence Harris [00:02:31]:

I don't know. I don't know. But I I'm totally appreciate being dropped by now. So every day doesn't get hoopla dropped in. I'm just gonna make that super clear. But if people do want to start dropping hoopla midway through my name, then yeah, it's it's great. You know, like, yeah, this is definitely part of the conversation, I think, is like, who is this person? But, yeah, no, it's lovely to be here. And, I know, I'm super excited to get going and delve deeper.

Lawrence Harris [00:03:03]:

I think it's probably the

James Glover [00:03:05]:

year. Nice. I I glad I'm really glad that you've kind of set yourself up for the expectation that there'll be some deep delving. We'll we'll kind of figure out that route map. And, and almost the kind of the the the kind of the shining the light, the in intimation of of of there's Lawrence and there's Hoopla and kind of figuring those two things out. I'm, yeah, super keen to get into that conversation. But where where I kinda wanna start, and I'm gonna be calling you Hoops just so that everybody who is listening knows that I can't call him Lawrence. I'd feel like his mom telling him off.

James Glover [00:03:39]:

So it's gonna it's gonna be Hoopla from from here, and people will understand why later. But we one of the things that has been really intriguing for me and also kind of really exciting and challenging in equal measure has been, you've been a really avid listener to the podcast, and there have been things that have kind of triggered in you thoughts and reflections. And you sent me kind of video messages from Walking the Dog of going, I'm really pondering this question around purpose and, like, where I'm at with it and, you know, what it means to me. And we kinda got into this conversation a bit of a backwards and forwards, like, video messages about that. And then and in the end, it was a case of, like, now we just need to get Hoops on the podcast and talk about it. And so I'm wondering, Hoops, if just from a start point, you could just give your, like, your honest authentic perspective on where you're at with the whole concept of purpose.

Lawrence Harris [00:04:36]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From the moment you started doing it, it it was a point when I started well, I'm I'm always interested in in podcasts anyway. Like, I love podcasts. I love the driving, listening to it. I do a lot of travel. So I'm all it's always in the ear, and I'm always keen to think about it.

Lawrence Harris [00:04:55]:

Dog walking is a great opportunity because you either listen to a podcast or you're just wandering the dog and absorbing the moment. So it's another time that I use in work to think as well. So I use a massive amount of time when I'm walking the dog or just going, To be fair, it's walking the dog because not a great deal of the time that I've got available. It's like a portion time in your life where you can walk a dog and you're allowed to do it. You're allowed to spend a bit of time by yourself and no one's gonna give you any guilt. So dog walking is like the access to, like, freely freeing your mind. So yeah, I was walking around listening to your podcast. And then I thought, yeah, then I start engaging this because, well, then just listen to it.

Lawrence Harris [00:05:36]:

What's it? What's what's it all about? You know, what? What's my purpose? Do I have a purpose? I wasn't quite sure. And and along that was a while ago now. And I think along the way, I'm learning more about what that is. And, at the time, I think I was just struggling with this big statement, you know, like, what's my purpose? I shall I've gotta do a shout because episode 20, they often want to rewind. Episode, Sammy Burt. And, she just threw out, like, she she addressed it in a way that I found it a little bit more, like, consumable. And I was like, okay. Now, like, got it.

Lawrence Harris [00:06:16]:

That was like a week ago, and I kind of, like, started to, like, at least, like, jump me on a little bit in that journey. And, along with chitchats with you, I started to kinda formulate a bit more of a kind of understanding of what what is purpose and what is what what am I trying to do with it all? And, but, yeah, that's what I suppose. Was that the original question? A really bad question.

James Glover [00:06:38]:

No. So I think, there's a couple of things that are really interesting here for, Hoops already. Like, one is just this, like, just acknowledgment that walking the dog, the simple act of walking dog can actually be so many different things. It can be just a space to think. It can just be an opportunity to just free your mind. It's a kind of a guilt free space, or it can be a a place to to engage and listen and try and learn. I think there's a lot in people just being able to understand the spaces that can trigger different experiences and being mindful and intentional about engaging in those things. So that there's something immediate there.

James Glover [00:07:22]:

Like, he's just talking about walking the dog, but wow, like, look how much comes into walking the dog. And then the the the other bit there about this kind of wrestle with what purpose is and isn't and, and Sammy kind of helping that. I'm wondering what it was that that, resonated with you in this idea of what's my purpose? Like, what felt the problem for you to solve? Or what felt like the gap that made you go, I gotta give some thought to that?

Lawrence Harris [00:07:50]:

Yeah. Good question. What was the gap? In case I was missing something. I think it's just I just wanna make sure that I'm not missing things. Like, and the and the like, along the way, I think I've worked out that actually I'm not missing anything at all. In some ways, I like I'm in a really lucky scenario, and I'm not sure if I'm jumping in too quick, but lucky scenario. I think that I I kinda nailed my purpose early on. I think it was it's been so long since I felt without purpose.

Lawrence Harris [00:08:22]:

I don't even know that I've got it. You know, like, I don't wake up and go, oh, god. I've gotta get on with this. I've gotta do this job. And, I don't want to go to work. Like, since since the history of working and when knowing you, then I know there's always difficult days and there's hard stuff to do, but I've never felt, in recent history, the the the for long anyway, the need to, find something else. I feel like I'm doing I'm going the right direction, and I feel like my soul's traveling in that direction. So I've never really felt that time when I'm like, why am I in this factory stamping metal plates or something, you know, making making American registration plate going, why am I doing this? I don't I've never I've never felt like that.

Lawrence Harris [00:09:16]:

And, I'm lucky that that I've been able to kinda forge that path early. And, so I think that that it was just like checking what is this. Like, is this something that I should have discovered, but actually discovered that I'm okay? Like, it's it's not it's not it's not an, an issue I have, but I should be aware of it. And, and I think I should be aware of it for a few other things as well for for my children. I should be aware of it because just milling along thinking, well, I don't have that problem. Doesn't mean that others might not, like my wife or my friends or my children or that may need support in it. And, and maybe I can help. So, yeah, I'm always interested not just for me, but for for others, I suppose.

James Glover [00:10:01]:

And, again, who's there? Like, 2 things immediately just kind of hit me in in in the soul. One of them is the fact that you just used the word soul. Right? Just really, intuitively, you talked about, I haven't felt the need to be doing something else. Right? And, this really for me is is the kind of the magic of not only these conversations, but just this whole concept is that it is a felt experience, and there is how much are you paying attention to that kind of interior world and what it's trying to tell you. And you turning around and going, and this can only been within the last year because we've already been going for a year, like, pausing for a moment and going, am I missing something here? And actually being able to go, yeah. No. I'm not. I don't think so.

James Glover [00:10:48]:

Like, the more I think about yeah. Well, more I think about this and more I think more I hear about it, I'm good. I just hadn't realized that I was good. And now that I'm able to recognize that, that's that's cool. And then immediately going from that to but it's probably important that I'm aware of it, not just for me, but for the people that are around me that that matter. And and the thing there that, that kind of really stood out is this this kind of the pressure that people put on themselves to be able to kind of articulate a purpose. Like, this this is my purpose. And here, look, I can say it out loud.

James Glover [00:11:26]:

And and actually and I think Sammy and I, were kinda geeking out in that in that episode actually. The thing that we really agreed on is that just be like, finding words that feel that feel connected to that sense of purpose, is useful. And it's useful for access. Like, oh, when I use these words, it takes me to that place of internal experience. Wicked. So I can then, like, use it and calibrate it to different situations and scenarios I'm in. But is that purpose? No. It's not.

James Glover [00:11:58]:

It's just a way to access it. And you're and and like there was just a really beautiful description of those two things. Am I purposeful? Yeah. I am. Can I articulate it? No. I probably can't. Does that matter? Not really. Unless I wanna try and help somebody else understand it.

Lawrence Harris [00:12:14]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I think that's what we're calling back to episode 20, and it was definitely very much I'm limited on my ability for language. I'm getting better at language.

Lawrence Harris [00:12:27]:

And it's the English language. I don't have the other languages I'm good at. Just but English sounded slowly better from the point of, like, absolute disaster while I was writing backwards at school to a point when I'm like, couldn't start to like understand the word and use it. And I'm told, but I would, I would hate to use a word if I didn't understand it. And, I I've fallen for that in the past where I've, so, I'm very keen to understand it. If there's if there's chat and I don't understand it, I'm like, why? I've got to try to decipher what that word is and, and then understand, that word. And does that apply to me then? There's a few steps to do that. And then and then again, like, it's the language of the language of love, the language of these sorts of activities or deep into your soul or your mindset or your purpose or your, what's the Greek words, self not pity.

Lawrence Harris [00:13:27]:

So self worth. Yep. Yeah. Like understanding these things, you know, there's like this big words in here that I just like to try to look into those and kind of like better understand it. But just a bit like we're in a technical world, we deal with a lot of acronyms and, a lot of words used in emergency services, that, and even in manufacturing and production, MOQs, and all these sorts of there are things that when you're early on, you like it. You have to start googling them and try to find them out. And it's part of how you decipher, what the answer is. You know? And without knowing the language, then it's really difficult to come up with the answer.

Lawrence Harris [00:14:10]:

So I think that's been a big hurdle for me is to and that's why I like listening to lots of versions because people will present it in so many different ways or relive an account their experiences, which means I learn a bit more. I go, oh, yeah. I connect with that. I get that as an example. So, yeah, that and that's the challenge is to kind of. And I think sometimes people get probably a bit, confused or or or we can get a bit kind of, wound up with, the language and and just going like, actually, I don't understand what that word means. And

James Glover [00:14:48]:

Yeah.

Lawrence Harris [00:14:49]:

Go a bit deeper to find out.

James Glover [00:14:51]:

And and Hoops, you, you're kind of teeing us up beautifully here, which is, we try to we try to kind of frame the conversation, a kind of a purposeful conversation around 3 things. So, you know, where and and how have you kind of uncovered purpose in your life? Like, where has meaning appeared? So that's kind of going into the past and thinking about the moments that have shaped you. And then, how do you understand purpose? So there's there's kind of, like, the today element of it, which we've just kind of almost been talking about. Like, what's the wrestle and where do you feel connected or are there gaps? And then there's the future focused element. How do we unleash purpose going forward and, you know, take leaps of faith? And you've kind of almost teed this up beautifully for that kind of first part of the uncovering element where you said, you know, I've come a long way with language from, you know, being at school and literally writing backwards. You know, I am I'm a dyslexic, so there's a part of me that's going, oh, maybe that's something that that you were experiencing too in that moment of time. But, yeah, just take us back, Hoops. Let's let's kinda do the journey of discovery here.

James Glover [00:15:51]:

And what what what was happening for you in that moment, and or what are some of those kind of, you know, pivotal times that have really shaped who you are today?

Lawrence Harris [00:16:00]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Going back to the beginning. And I think, you know, being correct, I've never felt, you know, like I've been lost and I've always had purpose. That's not the case. You know, like, there's definitely a moment back when you wound it back to, a career's adviser. I mean, like, talk about lack of loss of purpose.

Lawrence Harris [00:16:20]:

You know, just sit 20 minutes with a career adviser, and they'll definitely confuse you. Because that point, then you don't you were at a junction. So kind of I wrote down a note here, 1993 is when I did my GCSE results day. And and at that point, man was, from the careers advice point of view was either going to be either want to be an architect. And that's because my mum worked in an architect's firm. And I was like, I love drawing. And, or is going to be a brickie.

James Glover [00:16:52]:

He was into it.

Lawrence Harris [00:16:53]:

You know? And the Korean writer was like, that's very simple. It's like you know? And then she's probably looking at me going, well, I think you're probably gonna be more likely leaving school being a brickie than, anything else. At arms at arms like twigs, and, I didn't have the brain for being an architect. So either of those wasn't an option. So, yeah, it's, I suppose that's kinda like winding it back. And and and school was difficult for me. Like I did, I I enjoyed school. Like, I didn't dislike school.

Lawrence Harris [00:17:22]:

I didn't kinda go, oh, you know, I'm I just don't fit in here. I think initially until I got my GCSE results and realized I was a complete and utter failure, that until that point, I thought, well, this is alright. You know, turn up and play sports, go running in the afternoon. I looked back and, do some school work. I struggled with it. I didn't I didn't find it easy. I was, sometimes there was a moment when I was assessed in a special educational needs caravan in the corner of the in the school field where they send you off, you know, with, it's just like 19 nineties or probably not even 19 eighties methods of schooling and working out if anyone's got any extra special, needs that need to be tended to. And, I think I made it through that, that assessment, but by the, like the skin of my teeth, which meant basically I didn't have to sit in that van.

Lawrence Harris [00:18:19]:

I could go and sit in a normal classroom, which I was very glad of. And, but yeah. And early days, my parents recall that I was writing backwards before at primary when I started writing, or maybe even into, you know, into middle school, maybe. I was writing right to left, not left to right. And, and I included the letters. So all the letters were back to front. It's not just words, but letters. And I think that's I'm left handed, and and, I I suppose in that sense, I'm a self diagnosed dyslexic.

Lawrence Harris [00:18:51]:

You know, like, I I kind of was always just like, well, certainly not quite right here. And the more you learn, the more you learn, watch things, more you kind of pick up on stuff and think, I don't think this is quite right. And, I think that knocked me back a good few years where, everyone else excelled. And then when it came to GCSE result day, you know, it was like, well done. You've got to see I've got to see in science. And I think my dad's a doctor of physics. So it's almost like, surely, just give him just give him a it's gonna be in in It's gonna be

James Glover [00:19:23]:

in there somewhere. Yeah.

Lawrence Harris [00:19:24]:

Yeah. It'll it'll work out. Rest of it? No. That's it. Let's keep it. And, so that, you know, that was kind of what I walked out with. And then I thought came out of that and thought what house can I do? And and this is a point when you're like, you sort of lack of purpose. Yeah.

Lawrence Harris [00:19:40]:

But you're 16, and you don't know anything, and you don't know which way you go. And your career's advice at that time is, like, well, let's go and do another qualification that keeps you in education. And it was, like, g n v q. People don't know what that stands for. It's generally not very qualified. And it's but definitely, but then was like it was like, no. You didn't make this cut, and you're not gonna go there. Then you do this.

Lawrence Harris [00:20:07]:

You do this middle bit, and that'll just keep you occupied. And, and I did that, and we did sports science, and that was quite interesting. And, but it was really much an attendance course. I think if you turned up, you passed. And if you did if you if you didn't turn up, maybe maybe you still passed as well, depending on, what you did. But, I didn't feel any worth there. I didn't feel like it was value I was valued or anything like that. Then I was also thrown a level home economics, which has still see me good.

Lawrence Harris [00:20:36]:

I did a couple of weeks of that, and I'm still very good at preheating an oven, wash, filling my washing bowl early on. And, like, that's, they're like, to be fair, it's probably the most useful thing I learned in school, Things I still use. And, so, yeah, I did that. And then and then my my dad and my parents kinda knew, that wasn't getting on. And my dad had done a bit of research. I was climbing at the time, a young climber, and I was, recently built the climbing wall nearby. And, and I was going there, doing that with school, and going there with friends after school. And I had an interest in it, and, I I don't know how long you've got to chat, but I also did some crazy things, like went off climbing myself at an old just dilapidated bridge and set up ropes with friends and my cousin who's, who's, like, 10 years younger than me.

Lawrence Harris [00:21:32]:

And, and we'd we'd set up, like, ropes across and had my feet in 2 rabbit holes. I had no idea how to, like, rig ropes. And then, like, I clipped him on, and he leant back. The rabbit hole, that I had my feet in, they just broke. And we both fell over the cliff. Oh. Tied together. We must have fallen like it felt like a long way, but it was probably it's a disused bridge.

Lawrence Harris [00:21:58]:

And, we fell over the edge, and I think we both narrowly stopped from hitting the bottom. And, you know

James Glover [00:22:05]:

for who's felt like, you know, there would have been a time in my life where that story would have been hilarious, and I'm not at that place now. I'm at that place where that freaking terrifies me. Like

Lawrence Harris [00:22:16]:

You've got 3 kids, you know that. I've been getting 3 of them, good at kung fu.

James Glover [00:22:20]:

Yeah. Young kids, Stewbridge, Disneybridge, whole load of ropes where we're tying knots, and guess what? We just went over the edge.

Lawrence Harris [00:22:27]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, lack of knowledge. Like, no no real, you know. So, you know, I was enthusiastic to go and do these things. I'm enthusiastic.

Lawrence Harris [00:22:38]:

I wanna do more. I wanna do more of this. And, my dad saw that, and, he probably thought I could do with some road work. And, so I went off from that point. And, I went off to work at, or did it. I did a 9 month residential course at a place called Weirdale House in the North Pennines. And it was about 50 miles from my house. But the process of doing that was, my parents had to pay.

Lawrence Harris [00:23:06]:

You know, it wasn't a free course. It was it was fully you had to pay for everything, so your accommodation, all your qualifications, but you've kind of paid a lump sum and off you went. And the lucky position my parents could afford to do it, but I didn't go to university or anything like that. There's no degree. That was it. I was left I left from that point to the I was 17. I went there. Well, I did my interview when I was 16 and 17.

Lawrence Harris [00:23:28]:

I I left home, just early in that year, beginning of 17 when I was 17. And then, I stayed there, for 9 months, and eventually got a job there. But that was the direction that I think was best suited to me. Whether it was my purpose, I don't know. But it was best suited to my skill set that, that I was more practical than I was theoretical. And I went from a point of failing everything, like, everything I failed in school. I don't I don't don't think there was nothing I passed, like, pop and running. I kind of wanted that, but I didn't do anything else.

Lawrence Harris [00:24:06]:

And then going on to doing outdoor education, and then suddenly I was like, oh, yeah. You've passed another course. I've got another certificate, and I've got another certificate. And I'm doing better at this, and I excelled at this. And I was like, well, okay. Confidence is starting to build. So, you know, that Let

James Glover [00:24:22]:

me just let me just kinda dive in here a sec, hoops because there's there's a couple of things that that really stood out to me. One, kind of early on and as you're telling this story, you said, I didn't mind school. I quite, you know, enjoyed being at school. And then I got my GCSEs, and I felt like a failure. I'm wondering when you look back now just a few years later, how much does that experience in that moment still live with you? How does it shape the way in which you see the world or has has shifted and evolved?

Lawrence Harris [00:25:00]:

I think it does. I think it does still play on me. I was just thinking, you know, like, I don't think I'm I didn't never thought I was necessarily competitive. And, like, despite even, you know, the time we spent rafting and doing things in the competitions I've done, I never thought myself to be that competitive. But I think I am I want to I hate losing. Like, now I hate losing. I hate losing my competitors. I hate losing on a contract.

Lawrence Harris [00:25:27]:

I kind of I get it. And nothing you can do about it is gonna be part of life, but I do it does make me wanna go, like, I'm gonna get better. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna adjust what I do. I'm gonna beat them. I'm gonna beat this. I have that in me that and I think that's a little bit led from knowing I could do better and and and and and a bit like like, I'm not just on the pile yet. And having having led led what it was like to see, like, disappointment, I suppose, in school, and felt like, well, that was it. You know, it's gonna do very well.

Lawrence Harris [00:26:00]:

To then going, no. I can do well. And, yeah, like, put your ideas up and get better, be better, improve. And that is it. Yeah. You know, as much as I wanna you know, they can be all soulful and everyone's like, hey, Hoopla. Hey. You know, equally, I'm, like, gonna kill him.

Lawrence Harris [00:26:19]:

I'm gonna just annihilate that person. And, no, I, like, physically kill them. It's just good that I but I just I can't. Like, I work hard when I've lost. I work extremely hard. And and that's emotionally, physically, like, I do improve myself from that.

James Glover [00:26:37]:

So who's that? That's really, again, like, I just I'm just trying to hold on to the kind of the notes that are kind of coming out of this for me because there's so many things I wanna explore. We could be on this podcast for about 3 hours. This could be a Huberman length podcast, because there there there are a couple of things there. One is around this idea of, if if I lose, I want to work hard. I want to work hard off the back of it. And there there's that you know, I'm hearing something about that moment, which was quite confronting for you in terms of how it made you feel, this kind of sense of failing. But what came after it, you know, with with what is the absolute role of your parents to give you a bit of guidance in the moments when you really need it. Like, your dad being able to go, alright.

James Glover [00:27:26]:

Okay. I for survival's sake, I've gotta give this kid some rope skills. So let's do something about that because if he goes off another cliff, we might not see him again. And at the same time going, there's a different there's a different way for him to add value or create value in the world, but there's a different way for him to be. And and to be able to be a professor of physics, you know, and everything that comes with that, to be able to turn around and go, no. There's there's there's there's a different way there's a different way here. And and you go, right. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go do this program over here where it's actually about the outdoors, and it's about being able to kind of be in the outdoors.

James Glover [00:28:06]:

It's the activity of being in the outdoors and, like, educating the outdoors and all of a sudden having a total flip of, wow. It was a struggle before to pass stuff, and now all of a sudden I pass stuff with my eyes closed. Like, if that's not the biggest testament of turning around and saying, where does your where does your passion and enthusiasm lie? Like you said, I was enthusiastic to go drag ropes out and hang them off at the edge of a cliff and see what happened. Like death could have been what happened. But, like, you're enthusiastic to go and explore and see, like, what might have been possible there. And it took you to the point of, you know, being able to make a a a kind of a a life altering decision and choice to be able to go to this this this, this 9 month placement and the the outcome of that. I guess what I'm I'm interested in, Hoops, is that that kind of set a different trajectory for you. But I'm hearing this sense of enthusiasm, adventure, excitement for what might be out there.

James Glover [00:29:07]:

So so where did it where did it take you? What happened after after after that?

Lawrence Harris [00:29:13]:

Yeah. I pushed and I think at this point here, I'm still not sure, how I end up now where I am. You know, like, there's, like, there's a difference in what I do now to what I did then. And I don't think even my dad knew where I wanted to be. He just knew that I was good good at it, and I found enthusiasm from it. So I don't think necessarily anyone thought that it was any more than just go and do outdoors and and get on, get involved and, enjoy it. Enjoy it. Go enjoy it.

Lawrence Harris [00:29:43]:

You know, like for them, I made some money out of enjoying something. It was a win win. So I think that's where it all started off. And I kind of then carried on this this route. So Weirdale House for me was like the foundation of, like, your university of outdoor education. It was like, get your get my GCSEs again, basically, but in climbing, canoeing, skiing, gorge walking, ropes course stuff, archery. I mean, good Lord. Can someone give me children and bows and arrows? So they you gain this, like, basic of there's your basic quals.

Lawrence Harris [00:30:21]:

And I didn't really realize at that time, you know, like there wasn't many people running these types of courses back in 1994, 1995. I don't think there was anyone running these types of courses. There was one in, North Wales. I went to see them, and had a bit of a play, but weird house really kind of would fit my profile. And from there, it was really then I came out of that with qualifications and I was employable. I actually did work for the outdoor center, which is what they are, an outdoor center that run this thing called wits, which is a weird little house instructor training scheme. Keep your wits about you. Great puns like that.

Lawrence Harris [00:31:01]:

And, one of the guys there and there was a question about shoe shaped you. I've got, you know, like Simon Graham is the, you won't listen to this. I don't think. But, I still stay in touch with him now. But he's the most down to earth brash kind of, forward talking, no messing about sort of a guy. And, he was kind of person that if you he said no bags in the staff room. Like, no bags, no rucksacks in the staff room. And, and if you didn't, heed that, it went out the window no matter the weather.

Lawrence Harris [00:31:40]:

So I remember one time this lady turned up, and she was from, like, work experience, or she was, like, a subby that turned up to the outdoor center to turn up at work for us. And she didn't obviously get the memo about no bags. And, I'm sure it was a lady. And, she turned up and went, and then got I went to get a breakfast. Simon came in, grabbed their bag and just opened the window and threw it out. And so he he he like he didn't suffer fools. It was his way. And I've learned a lot from that.

Lawrence Harris [00:32:13]:

He was very, a lot of fun, but equally very kind of, like, stringent on, like, it's the rules. It's how it works. And I think sometimes our kids get a bit my kids get a bit of a backlash of that, you know. It's like, it's an easy simple way of working it. You know, like, and a tone down to that does work. So I learned a lot from people like that. You know, what the good or bad, I like, I learned I was with men and I was with women that gave me all this experience. I was with farmers and brickies and, you know, real normal adults.

Lawrence Harris [00:32:50]:

People that didn't have any, qualms in telling me it didn't save the problem, saying, like, get out of bed earlier. Sort your shit out. Like, it's like being in the army, you know, like, life changing in that sense. So, anyway, I learned a lot from there. They offered me a job. That was it. I was employed. And, from that point then I could, like, buy things.

Lawrence Harris [00:33:13]:

You know, like, my friends are still at university spending money, and I was making it. And, and that was a bit of a win for me. And I kinda thought, well, this is this is a nice kind of life, but I don't think I was ready to settle down in Weardale. That wasn't what I want to do. It's a tiny little town called Islipburn, and it's, old lead mining place. It's not the kind of place that I show myself living. Lovely place to be, but not where I want to live. And so, I then looked on the magazines, and I saw jobs going in the Ardesh, working for UK companies taking British kids down adventure holidays.

Lawrence Harris [00:33:51]:

We used to make a joke that they pay you, like, another day, another 2 pound 50. And that that's literally what you got paid. Like, there wasn't much there's not there's not much wages in it. But, so I decided to go and work for this company, and that's kinda where the where the Hoopla thing came from. It was a you know, like Hoopla was born at that point. Until that point, then I was called Lawrence or Lars, and then, worked for this, for Acorn Venture. And I was renamed Hoopla after a, interesting night in the bar describing my trials and tribulations. We're trying to get people, kids to the river.

Lawrence Harris [00:34:30]:

We're talking about risk assessments, and I think everyone gets a nickname. It's just an unfortunate mine stuck. And it stuck so hard. Like, how old are you? I'm 47. We're talking 30 years, aren't we? With 30 years I'm a little admit name. I mean, I got off lightly. My friend was called bra. And luckily, he has shedded that name now.

Lawrence Harris [00:34:57]:

He's back to Ben. But there's, yeah. Then Hoopla was born, you know, like this character was born. And, that took me aboard to the Ardesh where just to make sure that I, lived up to this, like, hoopla character, I dyed my hair blonde. But unfortunately I've got dark hair. So when you bleach blonde, you dye your hair in the bath with my mate, Chris Peacock, great name, by the way. It's I, dyed it, and it went it went sex pic sex pistols, ginger, like, and almost burnt with it. You know, it, like, stood on end, and it was ginger.

Lawrence Harris [00:35:39]:

And, I think I'm telling you those things because they that you can imagine this guy turns up, he's called Hoopla. He's got ginger hair on his end. And it's like and I get off the coach and everyone's like, yeah, this is gonna be awesome. Like, I I met my team, and and that was it. I kind of was in the Ardesh working as a river guide. So that was, a real open air to, like, where I was going a little bit. Like, I liked being a bit of the center of attention. I like the kind of excitement of it.

Lawrence Harris [00:36:10]:

I like being a bit silly. And, yeah. You're young, and it's the right time to do it. Don't do it when you're 40. To it when you're, like, 18. And that seemed like a good idea.

James Glover [00:36:26]:

So, you know, as you're as you're kind of progressing through this kind of journey, Hoots, you know, you're talking about, at at school, there just being this sense of, like, comfort. This is okay. Until until these moments, this kind of realization of, oh, wow. I'm not very good at this, and I and I'm gaining literally no sense of self worth from it whatsoever. And then there's this flip in experiences where what was kind of a cerebral environment, like a kind of cognitive, a thinking, everything is like can you pass this test, can you learn this thing, Becomes quite a physical environment where the skills are no less complex, and demanding, yet the mechanism is completely different, and all of a sudden you thrive, like, And, and you're and you're, like, absorbing and learning in this moment. What are the things that I see in other people's behavior that actually resonate with me? And there was something, in in the kind of the throwing the bag out of the window of, like, there's a boundary. Right? There's a boundary. Like, we can have fun.

James Glover [00:37:31]:

We're gonna have a great time, but there's a line. We don't cross the line because if we cross the line, then it turns into chaos. And actually, that's no good. And the fact that you are surrounded by people who are willing to just go, this isn't this is you need to be doing something different here. Like, get your ass out of bed. Like, if you're gonna do this, get up. And you're going, alright. Cool.

James Glover [00:37:50]:

I can hear that. I can I can take I can take that on? I can take that on. And how that played forward. But then it almost feels like there was an an evolution, like, to your point that a whole bunch of foundations then set. But there's still this kind of, like, excitement almost to see what else might be out there, what else might be possible. And we're like, alright. Yeah. Like, French River sounds cool.

James Glover [00:38:11]:

And we won't get into you and Chris in the bath. Like, I don't understand how that turned into bleaching of your hair, but that's probably a story for a different podcast.

Lawrence Harris [00:38:20]:

I thought we'd like to hear that it wasn't too bad in the bath. Yeah. We're out the bath. Yeah.

James Glover [00:38:27]:

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Listen. There's no judgment on this show. You do you, my man. You do you. But I didn't feel like it should be a confessional either.

James Glover [00:38:39]:

And then but then there's this part where you're turning around and going, there are these other things here which is I quite like that the kind of the brashness that I saw. Like, being the center of attention and being silly, that's fun. And look at look at look at the response that you get from people in that. And then you talked about, like, the creation of a character. So does that feel like it was separate from who you are, separate from Lawrence? Or do you just think it was a different expression of who you are?

Lawrence Harris [00:39:12]:

That's a good question. It's a different looking back, I when I was writing at my notes about about this, I think I looked at him. I was like thinking about myself a bit more, and I did feel a bit schizophrenic. Like, I feel like I was winning 2 lives. Like, Hoopla is definitely a character that is run away with himself. Like, I met people who knew Hoopla, but didn't even know it was me. And I think that's when I kinda, like, dropped the penny that this thing Hoopla kind of, like, gathered speed to the point of, like, uncontrollable. And, but then there there was a part of what Hoopla delivered to me as a character.

Lawrence Harris [00:39:56]:

Like like, it allowed me to be playful, fun. It was definitely something that would belonged in the Ardesh. Like, the Ardesh is much more like that. Like, back at home, if I'd stayed in the in the North Benan to go onto the Lake District, there's no way that Hoopla would have existed. It would just be Lawrence. And, you know, probably followed by your qualifications and your signature in their life. Mountain leader. And, and it wasn't that.

Lawrence Harris [00:40:23]:

It was like Hoopla, idiot. And I quite quite quite enjoyed it. You know, it just allowed you a bit of to be age a little bit, you know, go wild and enjoy that. And, and the character side of it, I enjoyed the fun and being a bit playful with things. But then even being called Hoopla, I think I was one of the most qualified on the on the camp. Like, I'd come from where they'll house I'd come with, like, I could run every single activity we did. So I was quite an asset to the come to the people I work with. But I had this other side to me that shows, like, playful with.

Lawrence Harris [00:41:05]:

And, and I think over recent years, then that Hoopla starting to, like, you know, he has to. He can't he has to calm down a little bit, you know, like Hoopla. I wrote down and said, like, when I had Hoopla, I remember listening and thinking I'm never gonna say no to anything. I'm gonna say yes. Like, free socks always say yes to free socks. Like, socks are expensive. Say yes to free socks. And I said yes to pretty much everything else as well.

Lawrence Harris [00:41:30]:

Like, I'll give you an example. When I was early on kayaking, I, some friends actually from the UK, and we got to this river nearby where I live now. And there's a, a tight constriction in the river, and it very difficult to navigate. Their luck really spinable, spinning the wheel on whether you're gonna make it through. I remember being at the top and being with another guy called Fergus, and he was better kayaking than me. No doubt. And then he just set away down this down this thing, and I thought, well, here we go. This is gonna be exciting.

Lawrence Harris [00:42:05]:

I didn't see it. He just set away down to the saw him just disappear off this little drop and then into this kind of gold section. And, next thing I know, someone's running back up, and I'm thinking, oh, heck. You know, well, I see is he is he has he died? Did he, like, hurt himself? Or and someone ran up and said, he's alright. He fell out his boat. He's he got pulled out his boat, and, we got him inside, and he's okay. And I was like, alright. Well, figures, obviously, he's back.

Lawrence Harris [00:42:33]:

Hi. Could he be back? I I got this. I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna say no. You know? Like, this is it. I've got this. And then off I went, and literally a minute and a half later, I've dislocated my shoulder for the first time, and, disappeared under a rock for a while and came up with an arm not connected to my body. And, that's the first of 9 dislocations that I endured my my kind of war sports career. So I think, you know, like, there's there's there's a plus of not saying no.

Lawrence Harris [00:43:05]:

There's also a massive disadvantage of not saying no. Like, there's definitely time to, like, heed your enthusiasm. But there's lots of pluses of doing it. So things like Patagonia went and worked there, and it was a ridiculous request. It was like, can you come to Patagonia in, like, 3 days time or something, 4 days time? And it was like ridiculous.

James Glover [00:43:24]:

So literally the country, not the organization. Yeah.

Lawrence Harris [00:43:28]:

Yeah. Not the organization. I'll tell them, like yeah.

James Glover [00:43:30]:

Go to South America. Yeah.

Lawrence Harris [00:43:31]:

Yeah. South America. Yeah. And work there in in in a heartbeat. Can you do that? And it was like, I was with my dad at the time, and I came off the phone and talked to him. And he said, yeah. Just go. And I was like, yeah.

Lawrence Harris [00:43:43]:

Let's do it. So, you know, like, there's no consideration at all about whether this is feasible, economically viable. It's just it just sounds awesome. And I go, yeah. That sounds awesome. But there was a bit of a negotiation on, you know, how I was gonna get recompensed for it, but didn't last long. I didn't have a great deal of responsibilities. And so Hoopla has brought me a lot of, connections and a lot of enthusiasm for that sort of thing.

James Glover [00:44:13]:

So you should you we should just really quickly touch on that because I remember you telling me the story of that. And let me see if I can recall that you literally were driven to a certain point in, like, the middle of nowhere where you had to then hike for God knows how long further into the middle of nowhere to set up a camp where there was nothing in order for other young adventurers to adventure out to you. And, yeah. So you have to tell people the details, but you also have to tell people about the Christmas when you came back.

Lawrence Harris [00:44:50]:

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at the time now, like, 43 minutes. Like, I've got, like yeah. I'm really sorry, everyone. If you're still with us, so, yeah.

Lawrence Harris [00:45:02]:

So, yeah, I I was working for Valley International. So they run expeditions for young children, or young peep young people, even adults, go and explore and do things. There's, phases where you can build a bridge or help a community, environmental phases. And I was invited to run, with along with, 2 of my friends who I live down the road from now and actually, sometimes work with was, one was Ben, Ben Keane and, Justin Tracy. And I and I knew Ben before we went, and I met Justin Justin when we got there. But it was to deliver a, run a program of, month long adventures for this team of participants. And it'll be 1 month per team, and it was 3 teams. And we had a bit of time on wrecking, so we're there about 4 months in total.

Lawrence Harris [00:45:56]:

And, it's, a friend of ours called Stogie or Stuart Shaw. He was there years in in, before, and then she told us a little bit more about the area. And it is the butt end of nowhere. Like, it's a long way from anything. Start off with you've got to get down to the Raleigh base, which is in Kauaiheki. And then from there, we had to travel on a fishing boat. I got a cold call now. 2 or 3 days, I think it was, of being on a fishing boat, which choked away through the archipelagos of Patagonia until eventually got to this bay where it just kinda stopped.

Lawrence Harris [00:46:33]:

And then the, it's called the Austral 3. I remember that. And and the, and the captain said, it's here. This is it go out. And you just look out the, out of the boat and you look across and it's just, just woods. It's just woods. There's nothing else. So we had to go out there and then, get all our kit out, get the canoes out from underneath the bilge and put them on there.

Lawrence Harris [00:46:55]:

And then he dropped us off at this beach and then waved goodbye, and then he set off on the the journey journey home. And that was it. From that point then, we had to then hike over a hill to get to a lake called Largo Presidente. And that's such a big lake. It's, it's got its own type, but, we didn't actually know, a lot of the maps. Now we're talking like we've got GPS, but it's not GPS with a map. Like there's no mapping systems, no Google maps. It's just paper maps.

Lawrence Harris [00:47:25]:

And the paper maps were like great sections look like that. And there'd be map. If you notice the video on is blank white. So you'd have mapped areas, then white sections that have nothing in them. So we kind of set away thinking, well, let's we knew where we wanted to go, but most of what we're walking through had no mapped area. It's just white on the map. So no one has really mapped it. So we set a way.

Lawrence Harris [00:47:52]:

We knew it was gonna be a few days. We had to walk up and over a mountain to get there. I think by the time we'd gone to the top of the hill and carried all of our kit, which is in total, something like 7 canoes or 6 open canoes, like 14 foot open canoes. And, all of our equipment for a month, that's all your food and everything for a month. That took us, like, 4 or 5 days, and we got to the top of the mountain. And, still couldn't see the lake. And I were like and I think that moment we came over the top of the mountain, they did. We should be able to see the water by now.

Lawrence Harris [00:48:25]:

You know, like, with 4 days in, 5 days in, like, we should be able to see the map, see the water. And to get over there and just not see anything, to see more wood, I said, I think we're on a, this is a sort of joke. We're on a, like, this is a reality TV, like program. This is what this is. They're filming us. And, anyway, we, we forged ahead and it was like day 9 that we arrived at the lake. So 9 day portage of our all our kit and hands up to all the people on if anyone's ever listening, like any order that expedition is like a hero of my eyes. Like, they just didn't give up like, 9 days of walking through.

Lawrence Harris [00:49:02]:

And we're talking like leeches, waste deep mud through thick bracken. Like, it's not a nice walk. It's not like wandering down that path. It's just difficult. So, yeah, we got there. Then the easy bit came. It was canoeing bit. We told people how the canoes even though the canoes also got smashed to bits in the way, we had to fix those with, on the fire and repair them with bits of plastic and all sorts.

Lawrence Harris [00:49:30]:

But we got there, got to the river, and, then we run another 2 groups in the same place. But luckily, all the kit was there so people could get dropped off and didn't have to do the 9 day porridge. So massive win for them. But a big, big learning phase for us, you know, like for the 3 guys there, we were there in that in that environment for 3 months. And you just it's just life changing. Like, I still like, 1998, I did it. And, you do still recall, like, the feeling of, the hardship of it. And, I remember leaning on my friend saying, like, I'm not sure.

Lawrence Harris [00:50:08]:

Should we should we turn back? Like, are we okay? Can we do this? Or should we we didn't have cell phones. We had a big wind up radio. You wound the radio and talk to base every night and tell them where you are. And so, yeah, you have to really push on, put your head down and and and rely on each other and help help help help the bad days. You know, you had, you know, there's times when it rains for a month, it rains solid for a month, like every single day in the mud. You know? So it's about the hardest thing I've ever done, I'd say. And I think I think all the other guys would say that they'd they'd mirror that. It's the the most difficult thing we've done.

Lawrence Harris [00:50:48]:

Then to go, yeah, to get back home, we got him on for Christmas. It was Christmas day. I got asked if we wanted to stay. And I said, there's no chance I'm going home. And, I'm out of here. And, I came back with like a 6 pack, like never believe I'd like pass. Would it be like, well, proud of me? So, but I came back and I was just lean. I just, drank a drunk with, we all drank lake lake water.

Lawrence Harris [00:51:19]:

We'd eaten dehydrated food or, anything we call it fish or this like Rhubarb stuff we could cut down. So we came back and we just like UberFIT. And then I came back on Christmas day, like Christmas Eve or something around there. And, and there was, like, rich food and all this lovely things to eat and drink. And everyone was like, come on, be merry. And I've tried it. And, well, I couldn't I couldn't handle the food. And I couldn't handle what started as a toilet inside, which I was a bit confused with.

Lawrence Harris [00:51:51]:

And it couldn't handle central heating, and ended up sleeping outside eating porridge. So phoned up my friend Ben, and I was like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm outside. You know, just couldn't handle it. Neither of us could handle the, like, living indoors anymore. And, took a while to get back into that, like, being inside and, eating normal food. I just needed to eat porridge and sleep outside.

James Glover [00:52:17]:

So how does how does that experience, along with, you know, this kind of this this transition from Lawrence into Hoopla Hoopla into Lawrence, like, how's what are the lessons from that experience that you still carry close to your heart, Hoops? How does that how does that shape the way in which you go after stuff today?

Lawrence Harris [00:52:39]:

I think it's a there's a resilience to it all, you know, like stuff like the the the Hoopla Lawrence Expeditions and the things that I've done, whether they're, like, under the pretext of, like, being called Hoopla at the time. But I think that the, those alter egos at the time, Lawrence had been quashed a little bit, I suppose. Like, Lawrence was my school name. Like, you know, you said before, like, Sunday name, your parents. Like, Lawrence had been squashed. Like, dead he was dead to me. I was called Hoopla. As far as I could everyone controlled me Hoopla.

Lawrence Harris [00:53:16]:

Like, I was quite happy with that. I was a new I was, like, reborn again, like, with enthusiasm and, fun and adventure. And it was it was working for me. Like, it was a great it was a great setup. Why would it change that? And, coming back and being called Lawrence was kind of a, like, a even my mom started calling me Hoopla because I think she understood that, it was a big part of my character and, you know, she understood it. She didn't call me every day, but she definitely dropped it in a few times when she kind of, wanted to kind of connect with me. So I think that that that that that's carried me along that, like, hoopla, but it does come to a fine end. You know, like, there's there's a time in your life when I had to, like, look at somebody else, use a different name, be a different character.

Lawrence Harris [00:54:09]:

And I think the names are just a way really just altering my my my my character. Yeah. So Lawrence turned up, back into into my life probably when I, once I returned back from, from Patagonia, I think maybe from Patagonia, came back in 99 or 2000. No, he didn't know. He stayed he stayed tucked away for a bit longer. It was current trends after that. Definitely a hoopla moment. And, and, yeah, it kind of rolled on from there.

Lawrence Harris [00:54:43]:

And be launched. Didn't show didn't really show up until I started feeling like I had to get a proper job. And I think, boy, not always for the wisest thing to do, but, I think that that when I had grace, my first child, it was like a certain moment of, like, oh, I should should be more serious. Like, I should I should put my head down and do more. And, I maybe apply myself to something else. And, I applied for sales jobs. I got, like, pension and car and a health care and good money and, you know, lack of enthusiasm. But, yeah, you know, you're getting all this money.

Lawrence Harris [00:55:30]:

Look at this. This is cool. They're like, yeah. They're like, you try to tell people who who lies. They're like, no. Your name is Lawrence. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. It's Florence.

Lawrence Harris [00:55:40]:

That's my name. And, and that that that was like that was me trying to put my head down and realize that I had responsibilities and trying to be, responsible for my the birth of the first. I didn't know 3 children, but I've got 3 kids. And Grace was really the the teller for that, where I felt like I better do that. And I I think I went through jobs. I didn't I didn't hold one job down longer than a year, and I went to, like, 4 sales jobs. So as a period then after after current trends, which we can what we wind to, if you want. But the time then, we went to, like, change my attitude to Lawrence was like, yeah, 4 years of loss of loss of direction.

Lawrence Harris [00:56:24]:

Although I don't think I left had a loss of purpose. I think I was just trying things and going dead end, doesn't work. Dead end, doesn't work. Just took 3 or 4 goes of that to kinda go, screw it. Let's do it. Let's just go and do something else. You know?

James Glover [00:56:38]:

And so where where like, just bring us kind of to to today, Hoopla, because there there are a whole bunch of things I just wanna kind of I just wanna draw your attention to on that kind of timeline that you're sharing, but just complete the circle. So there's this this kind of shift and change from Lawrence to Hoopla. This then kind of this this belief that maybe you have to go back from Hoopla to Lawrence and there's a bit of there's a bit of test and learn in there. There's a bit of figuring it out. There's something like, I think I should be doing this, but every time I do this, I'm freaking miserable. There is no enthusiasm. I'm not into it. So I'm gonna bend that and try something else.

James Glover [00:57:16]:

And this happens a few times until you start to get yourself in a groove that feels different. So just kinda close the circle. Like, what's the groove that feels different, and how did you get there?

Lawrence Harris [00:57:26]:

Yeah. The well, the the kind of big moment was the the I don't think I had the at that point then when I started, I was going bad. It was like I was going from job to job to job, and I just wasn't. And I'd had, by that time, I was, with Jen, my wife. And, she's super supportive of things and really one of those people that just says, like, this you know, she had she had my back, and she could she could give me the confidence to do what I wanted. Asia is extremely talented. She had a great job, and, she just saw something in me that maybe it died out a little bit and thought, well, like, I, you know, I think she'd get it back. And, she was willing to support me.

Lawrence Harris [00:58:14]:

And that was the moment then that I thought, well, yeah, I can I can I can rebuild this in another way? And it was the impetus was really that, I came I came back from one job and, like, I can't do this anymore. I've gotta be able to do this somebody else. Like, and business is always a thing, like being an entrepreneur, having ideas. I knew the word entrepreneur then, but I knew that I like current trends was a time when I was had a business, and it was fun, but I was still Hoopla. And they're like, could I have a business that wasn't Hoopla? Like, could I turn on a, like, a professional side of me? And is that feasible? So I left being employed, being self employed and went off and said, like, I'm gonna advertise myself and see if I can promote my own activities. And that was a time when I was freelancing and, being a professional, but pursuing my dream. Like I was back in control. I was back in the driver's seat.

Lawrence Harris [00:59:11]:

I wasn't sat in the boot anymore being told that I was rubbish, which was kind of one of those things in sales that they basically do all the time. It's like, you're not good enough. You need to work harder. I was like back at school. It was like the worst freaking time because you're just like, no matter what you did, you were seen as not being very good. Because they don't want you to be good. They want you to carry on being, like, pushing forwards. So I think they, you know, like, for me, I was like, this doesn't fit.

Lawrence Harris [00:59:39]:

I've got to be someone. I've got to be in control again. So go into the sales, going out of sales and going into, even just being in control of my own destiny was again, like, I get I got a lot back from that. And that was, like, right, we're on the right trajectory. And, that at the time, I didn't think it was gonna be any for a while. I thought I'd just carry on doing this. I'll just carry on working for myself and, and be a gun for hire in the kind of in the kind of, in the rescue world, which was what I was doing. I was teaching fire services, work at height.

Lawrence Harris [01:00:17]:

I was teaching, there's a bit of a bit of my life. I forgot. But here I was a rescue trainer, full time employed rescue trainer. But again, I was employed and I was controlled about my ability to move forward. But I've gained more skills from outdoor ed into industrial and then into into rescue. And I knew that this was like there's an opportunity that existed, and, I wanted to forge forwards and open that up. So I started doing more technical training to fire services, technical training to wind turbines, telecoms companies, United Nations. So, like, it took me some interesting places, like top of rooftops in, borders of places where there's slight war going on and, you know, like in armored vehicles from place to place.

Lawrence Harris [01:01:07]:

And, you know, you gotta think, what the hell are we doing here? This is wild. But that's like, the little bit of Hoopla comes out, and they're going, yeah. Let's go load it. Like so, yeah, we kind of, like, pushed on with that. And, yeah, it it the excitement was back, you know, like but I was in charge.

James Glover [01:01:26]:

Yeah. So, you know, if you listen if you listen to this story, and I hope that you, you have the opportunity to kinda listen back to this, the one of the things that gets me really excited, I'm having a bit of a goose pump goose pimple moment here is the reason why I love talking to and listening to people, tell stories is that ultimately, like, as Brene Brown says, stories are data with a soul. So they give us information, but they make us feel some stuff too. And within that data, within that soulful information, there are the the nuggets of information that help us understand the things that we really care about. And when we start to see those and connect the dots with all of those and see them reappear at multiple different places in our timeline, it then gives us the choice to go, oh, wow. That's not just some random act that appeared in that moment that had influence over me in that moment. That's just there's a theme here that continues to emerge consciously or unconsciously. And that's powerful because the the second that you turn around and go, I can see those and acknowledge those and think about the contribution I want to make to them, that's where the self worth flip comes from.

James Glover [01:02:42]:

Because if you if you are contributing to something that matters to you, immediately you feel worth, that you feel valued. And it's really amazing listening to you talk about this kind of, you know, I've, like, I've got this kind of, like, almost, you know, kind of wave sort of image. In fact, the image I've got in my head is like a like an ECG, like a beep beep, like the kind of the up and down of a heartbeat of, you know, these experiences of the way that you described your time in sales and the language that you used and how close that was to the language that you used when you talked about school. It's unbelievable. And actually in both cases, you didn't feel like you. And it was almost like just listening to the but on both cases, this kind of journey of recovery. So after school, the journey of recovery was, you know, where where climbing and Weardale took you. And this kind of this growth and this expression into this different character of, Lawrence feels a bit crushed here, and and and and I can see that I can be something else.

James Glover [01:03:49]:

And there's a name that I can put to that for a while. So I'm gonna put the name to that for a while, and and I'm gonna gonna go after that. And then all of a sudden, the kind of the world and your context shifted so quickly and so far, and kind of parenthood does that to you. Right? You're like, oh oh, no. The seriousness has to be back, so that's gotta be a Lawrence thing. And and, and, actually, the same it was like that that's the kind of the dip in ECG again of, like, ah, like, what does this what does this look like? And the same kind of language as as was happening at school. But then this kind of acknowledgment, this realization that can I do both? Can it be a both and? Can there be a Lawrence with a bit of Hoopla? And starting to see that there were situations and circumstances that Hoopla appeared, Like, in the in in the moment of yeah. I can I can just imagine you in some UN van, in a place that you could never have imagined, having not understood exactly where it was you were supposed to be when you arrived there going, wow? Alright.

James Glover [01:04:44]:

We're in it now, kids. In the same way that you did when you were at the top of a mountain looking out going, why are we not where we should be? Why am I here? Why am I up to my nuts in mud again, drinking a 14 poke and eating rhubarb? What is this? Yeah. But but but in both cases, there is this sense of adventure, enthusiasm, and fun that kind of carried you through. But also, like deep resilience and a willingness to be reliant on others. And it's amazing to me listening to you talk about the influence your dad has had at key moments. So this, right, son, go and try this out. Well, oh, yeah. There's a phone call to go to Patagonia.

James Glover [01:05:26]:

Just do it. And then you meet Jen, who has almost exactly the same influence as your dad. We've got you, like your parents. Like, because I know your mom's a big, influence in for you too. Like, we've got your back. Don't worry. We've got you. Go do this.

James Glover [01:05:40]:

Go figure that out. Because when you figure it out, the magic comes out. And now you're talking about this shift in in in cultivating this sense of purpose, this sense of identity. Because purpose ultimately is the foundation to identity. It's about how we think and feel about ourselves. Right? And you being able to go, a, I need a bit of control and autonomy because that's critical to me. I can't I can't be squished by what somebody else is saying that I should be doing with somebody at some other point in time. And b, a sense of enthusiasm of like, where can I put my skills because I've got a contribution to make? And I'm so glad that you used that word, entrepreneur and ideas.

James Glover [01:06:21]:

Because my hat, mate, how many do you have on a day to day basis? Like, if anybody's watching the screen right now behind Hoops, there are 2 fairly scary looking mannequins dressed in some fairly significant kit. Every bit of that kit's been designed by Hoopla and Hoopla's team. And it's literally saving lives around the world now. So this this transformation that has occurred in you just being able to have this wrestle between how do I feel here? Do I feel pulled towards something, or do I feel squished by something?

Lawrence Harris [01:06:52]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, to to, like, jump back into, like, you mentioned about Jen, and and I think that's one thing that's really different between my parents. I think they're very supportive in that initial, like, going to Wielhaus and and even doing things that were like, they're very adventurous. Now they still adventure now, and they're, in their seventies. And they're still like, yeah, we're off.

Lawrence Harris [01:07:16]:

We're off, you know, leaving the house for months. They've had the Ukrainians living there. Like, they are like open house sort of people. They always have been. And I think that kinda like social side of it is definitely a big, influence on me. My dad very, like, focused on my, or aware of my capability and my direction. My mom just offering the warmth of, like, what is an open household? What's that look like? Like, what is an open house look like? Well, open house is like pretty much anyone's welcome at any point of the day, like, at any time. Yeah.

Lawrence Harris [01:07:49]:

It's just mega. And you know that she probably thinks she didn't always I don't always, like, associate those sort of things with or my successes with her. And I think career wise, probably not. But attitudinal, like how I am with my family or how I am with my partner or my friends, like how it what's forged me, for sure, you know, like, those those softer touches is where you get it from. And but my both of them are very risk averse, I would say, especially when it comes to, like, occupation. They're like, no. You work for someone. Like, if you're doing freelancing, it doesn't seem as risky, but, they haven't been entrepreneurial, themselves.

Lawrence Harris [01:08:39]:

So there's the it comes with a level of caution. Amazingly, you know, both me and my sister own our own businesses. So there's obviously something about, like, flying the nest where we were like, well, we'll do it. We wanted to do that. And, but, yeah, like that support came from Jen and she just seemed to have no although she's Scottish, which means that she's extremely careful with her money, is that that's a sweeping statement about Scottish people.

James Glover [01:09:09]:

But there goes an entire nation listening to the podcast.

Lawrence Harris [01:09:11]:

There's one nation dealt with. Yeah. So but she's extremely cautious with, what she didn't spend her own money, but quite happy to, like, almost risk ours. You know? Like, I was like, we're gonna do this. She's like, yeah. Cool. That's good. Let's just crack on with that.

Lawrence Harris [01:09:26]:

So I had this kind of like idea of starting a business. Then she was right behind me, you know, like, I I was always shocked to her ability to just stand by and go, yeah, like, let's do it. And, and you kind of think that the risk would start early on and then that would fade out. And, you know, when you've got nothing, you you're like, well, we've got no money. I mean, I remember turning up with my first ever rescue boat to a trade show, and the bull rafts when I had bull rafts, which is a white wall rafting manufacturing company. And I just wanted to come up. That was a side project, one of my many side projects. But I decided to start the take a rafting, brand with made inflatables, and then turn it into a, a rescue inflatable.

Lawrence Harris [01:10:12]:

And, but I couldn't really afford to buy any more than the one sample I had and turn up to the trade show. Like, I was really hopeful that someone would see what I did and jump on it. And I I suppose in my mind, ordered 20 or something. You know? Like, that was my kind of, like, rationale. Like, I'll build 1, and then someone always come up and order 20. That's what it'll work. Totally believed in that would, like, is a good thing to do. And I turned up to the rescue 3 show, which was in, in North Wales, and that took the product.

Lawrence Harris [01:10:43]:

And, I knew a lot of people there, you know, like kayaking community, the rescue community are very, in within water rescue are very closely linked. And, lots of lovely things were said, lots of support, but I really wasn't getting the orders. I'm looking at it would have got the orders. But there was a friend of mine called Andy Laird, who, I was actually stalking at the time. Not in a sexual way. But I kinda like

James Glover [01:11:15]:

There's another theme emerging from this conversation. Yeah.

Lawrence Harris [01:11:18]:

Yeah. I think it's, like, part of the profile is like, I don't like losing. And I'll try to find a way of winning. You know, like, like, I think I've got a path. How do I get there? And he probably doesn't know I stalked him. But I did. And, Andy owned, a company which, designed whitewater courses. So artificial whitewater centers and, the blocks that you see in the Olympic Games venues.

Lawrence Harris [01:11:46]:

So the blocks at Lee Valley 2012, for the 2012 Olympics on the white water course, is Rapid Blocks, which is, Andy's company with, and the guy called Scott Shipley is an American. And they, they had a quite successful business building these white water centers and building these blocks, and he had a bit of cash. So he was willing to kinda share it with me, really. And he came up and said, I'll invest in your business. I'll go 5050 with you. And I was like, well, yeah, sounds way better than doing it by myself, because I don't have any money. And I think we put about 30, he put so he put 30,000 of his business money in, and we kicked off by buying a lot of boats. And we put them and stacked them up, and we didn't have anywhere really for the business to live.

Lawrence Harris [01:12:32]:

So in my hallway, it was stacked high with boats. In my little shed was full of boats. In his house was full of boats, And we were just, like, stacking boats in boxes. And, you know, like, thinking and and by many means, he's like, we've gotta start selling these boats. Should we drop the price? And I was like, no. It just takes time. And, you know, we went through that period. It was a difficult period, exciting period, but the company grew, and that was in 2014.

Lawrence Harris [01:13:00]:

And, we started pushing the brand forward. But that's when Jen really came to kind of, like, her capability of just hanging in there was noticeable. Like, she was so different to anything else that I'd experienced where she believed in it. She just, like, believed in it. She believed in risking Andy's money. So we we push forward with that. And that was the start of, of the company. You know, like, it was called water rescue systems.

Lawrence Harris [01:13:30]:

Still wearing my t shirt now. And, and WRS is now is real. It's a, it's it's brand name. And, from there, that was the kind of the start of it. And it's got a few evolutions along the way, but general is a big part of, like, that belief.

James Glover [01:13:48]:

Alright. So we we've kind of, we've done our journey through the kind of three phases of this conversation in a nonlinear, a nonlinear approach, which feels deeply appropriate, actually. And, and so we kind of almost started with kind of where and how you're making sense of purpose in this moment and today. And then we, like, dived into the journey of discovery and the experiences that have really shaped you and this kind of contrast and tension between Lawrence and Hoopla and how the magic of the 2 are starting to really come together and, just enabling more things to be possible in your life with the aid of some really wonderful support around you. So when you look forward, where do you think the kind of the future leaps of faith may come from? Like, how is this kind of intuitive sense of purpose, meaning, and contribution guiding you forwards?

Lawrence Harris [01:14:41]:

I think, first of all, the journey of doing this gave me an experience of, like, understanding those characters about me and a bit more about, you know, what their what their attributes were, and how their skills could be applied. I think there's always gonna be leaps of faith. I think I've sustained my nature. I think, like like you say, I've I've a million I've had an idea this morning, or last year. It's the last night I had a new business idea. So that's you know, like, there's always something happening, but we were we've got some new things happening with the company as well where we're changing shape, and they all require a level of trust and leap of faith. And I think I've got to then be able to, like, switch those hats a little bit, still put the hoopla hat on and the, like, on the hat of, like, yeah. Screw it.

Lawrence Harris [01:15:30]:

You know? Don't say no. But then I've also gotta go, well, hold on. Like, think about shareholders and you gotta you gotta you gotta like, is that gonna work for us or, like, our customers are gonna still get what we do, and there's that side occupational side where I've got to be able to, like, switch those both on. Actually find the 2 also the the 2 characters really useful for the for meetings, you know, being able to, like, put, like, a softer tone on it, a thunder, and then still be able to, like, whip Lawrence back out of the cupboard. And, and be a bit more focused on what I want so that people don't lose sight of me. I'm just a blithering idiot. It's like, I've got an idea where I wanna be. So the leaps of faith, I think they'll come all the way through.

Lawrence Harris [01:16:21]:

Like, there's there's, you know, from from, from personal life when you've got to make a decision about, you know, what family do and what what direction is as as a household. Gosh. Growing children up. I mean, god. You know? Like, that's gonna like, that's if anything's gonna be the bit, it's gonna be the biggest leap of faith then the biggest skill set I'd have to use both of those levels for is, bringing up 3 girls is gonna be the point when I have to be able to, like, do the men do the do the bad boys, bit with the boyfriends going around, but it could be, like, be fun time frankie a bit and be able to, like, enjoy the the the the moment, be in the moment. You know? Like, don't don't be thinking about work all the time. Don't be thinking about other things. Just just be hoopla about it and, like, absorb that time.

Lawrence Harris [01:17:18]:

Do yes. Do a lot of yes stuff. Expect the kids are gonna do lots of yes things, and remember just the stupid things that hoopla did. You know? Like, that is a big learning thing, and I think those those are the bits that I have to kinda, like, pinch yourself and realize that, you know, your kids are gonna do stupid stuff, and that that's a part of it, and, actually, they will they will they will change them. They'll they'll they'll grow from it. So that's the question. And then I think, you know, like, the the future for those characters in my life is about empathy of being those people. And so that when I'm prepared for future stuff or my children doing things or so, yeah, I think it's all part of that journey of understanding yourself.

James Glover [01:18:11]:

I love I love Hoops how, the kind of the very nature of a leap of faith. It it's not a big question. He's like, that's literally part of who I am, and that's how I operate. And the the issue is not the leaps of faith and the willingness to take them. It's the boundaries around when to take them and when not to take them. And and again, this kind of wonderful tension. So, again, the thing around purpose that that that just kind of speaks to my soul is this idea of paradox, like, opposites that exist at the same time. Alright.

James Glover [01:18:42]:

Paradox. So 2 things that feel like they're on the opposite end of a spectrum actually existing in real time together. And that's like who Lawrence and Hoopla are. They're both you. And they both express wonderful things from within you. And they're both there to be able to help guide you and take you forwards. And even when you talk there about, yeah, leaps of faith that are just everywhere. Like, I had an idea this morning.

James Glover [01:19:04]:

I definitely had one last night. But then there is also this but they need boundaries. Like, you can't just have these unlimited sense of boundless enthusiasm to go into, well, the unknown because that fundamentally is gonna create chaos in your world. So how do you boundary it, but boundary it in a way that doesn't feel restrictive, just feels directed, and feels seen and nurtured and supported. And then being able to turn around and go, well, the big thing here as well though is for my kids and like that that whole process being a leap of faith. And again, I you know, something that's quite confronting for people is when I turn around and go, like, your kids aren't they're not your purpose. Right? They they're not. Do you find meaning in your children? Yeah.

James Glover [01:19:47]:

I really hope so. I really hope so because they're they should be significant and important in your world. But purpose is not just about the meaning and the significance and the importance. It's about the contribution. Like what are you bringing to them? Like, who do you want to be for them? Like, what's the parent that you want to be for them? And actually, when you express your own sense of purpose, at through your role as being a parent, it shifts and changes and evolves in the same way that they shift and change and evolve. And so to hear you just go, yeah. I need to know that and see and understand that they're gonna do some crazy stuff. Like, they're gonna have their hoopla moments, and that's okay.

James Glover [01:20:23]:

And sometimes I might have to bring the Lawrence and throw the bag out the window if it stays in the hallway. Like, that's gonna be okay for the for them too. I think that's just a really wonderful place for us to to to finish hoops and just help people feel like it's okay to have multiple perceptions, expectations, perspectives on things that they care about. And just knowing that and paying attention to that and being guided by that allows more things to be possible. Thanks, man.

Lawrence Harris [01:20:53]:

Awesome.

James Glover [01:20:55]:

Massive thank you for taking the time to listen to the excitable soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding, and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs at the excitable soul dot com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.