Episode #26: Bex Galligan
Finding Gratitude in Adversity: A Path to Personal Growth and Business Success
Today on The Excitable Soul Podcast we have a very special guest, Bex Galligan. As a best-selling author, career strategist, and head of people experience at Wagamama, Bex brings a wealth of knowledge and a truly unique perspective to our conversation.
In this episode, Bex delves into how she merges her analytical and creative sides, emphasising the importance of maintaining balance and being open to feedback and challenges. We explore her journey of overcoming stress and anxiety due to bullying, discovering her strengths, and unlocking new levels of confidence.
Bex also opens up about her views on remote and hybrid working, the importance of social interaction, and the complexities of technology in today’s workplace. She reflects on her experience with dyslexia, the significant impact of her past challenges, and how she’s learned to find gratitude even in the face of adversity, including a recent stroke.
Together, we discuss the value of intuition over academic validation, the role of personal values in finding meaningful work, and the importance of effort and discipline in personal development. Bex’s mission to transition from corporate life to making well-being at work a priority speaks volumes of her commitment to creating positive change.
Join us for a heartfelt, motivational, and thought-provoking conversation as we explore Bex Galligan’s incredible journey, her dedication to helping others, and her unwavering hope and optimism.
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Read the transcript here
James Glover [00:00:09]:
Alrighty. Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.
James Glover [00:00:44]:
So let's get going, shall we? Welcome to the excitable Soul podcast. Today, we have Bex Galligan with us, best selling author of It Pays to be Happy, career strategist and head of people experience at Wagamama. Bex's superpower is leveraging dyslexic thinking and following her passions to build diverse and successful careers. She's passionate about bridging the gap between individuals and organizations, creating happier and more productive workplaces. Vex's journey hasn't been smooth sailing. She's faced redundancy, risky career moves, toxic workplaces, and the ups and downs of dyslexia. These experiences fuel her mission to ensure others never feel alone in their career paths, believing that happy people make productive companies. She's inspiring strategies that align personal fulfillment with professional success, making a workplace of joy and growth.
James Glover [00:01:42]:
Join us as we dive into Vex's journey, her tips for career success, and how she breaks barriers to live a limitless life that she loves. Welcome everybody back to the excitable soul podcast. I've got Bex Gaughan with me this afternoon. How are you doing, Bex?
Bex Galligan [00:01:57]:
I'm very good. Thank you. Setting up in Spain right now.
James Glover [00:02:01]:
Man, that is the life. Although it is like 31 degrees in the UK right now.
Bex Galligan [00:02:06]:
I know. I heard. Why is it always that when you go and chase the sun, the sun turns up where you left? Like, seriously? Well,
James Glover [00:02:12]:
I think the thing you have got going for you is that tomorrow, it won't be here anymore. And for you, it probably still will be. I know.
Bex Galligan [00:02:18]:
It's gonna be 36 degrees tomorrow, so I thought it'd be inside as well.
James Glover [00:02:23]:
So how are you feeling on your holiday trip?
Bex Galligan [00:02:26]:
I definitely needed it. With a brain that works at a 100 miles an hour, I sometimes have to just go somewhere where my responsibilities can't follow me, and I can just leave all of the airport. And that way, I can clear my mind. So I really needed the holiday. I needed the sunshine. I've been ill. You can probably hear a bit of it in my voice because there is no vitamin d top up. So I'm very grateful to be here in Spain.
James Glover [00:02:51]:
We massively applaud your commitment to to this podcast because, you're okay before we started. You literally traveled with all your gear. Like, the you're a proper podcasting pro to be able to get on the plane with only hand luggage and some of that be the tech required to do a podcast. So thank you for committing.
Bex Galligan [00:03:11]:
I acquitted. And I also I committed to doing this before I decided to go on a holiday, so I had to you were the priority. What am I packing in my bag? Because I've already made these commitments. The rest will just have to fit in around it.
James Glover [00:03:24]:
Magic. Magic. Well, we deeply appreciate you being with us. And, yeah, for just being willing to to kind of explore a purposeful conversation where we're on a kind of a bit of a mission just to make more overt some of those experiences that people have had that have really shaped the meaning and connection in their lives and really inviting people in just to share their journey around that. And it's been just wonderfully rich and individual territory that people have kind of covered off that has really shaped who they are in the world today and how they think about utilizing that to create a greater level of significance and importance around the things that that they do. So maybe if I can start, like, start with a a more broad, more general question, which is Yeah. You know, the concept of purpose is is pretty big and pretty broad. Right? And, you wear many hats in your life, and I'm really interested in, like, your how how you experience the concept of purpose.
James Glover [00:04:21]:
Like, what does it mean to you?
Bex Galligan [00:04:23]:
I I do wear many hats. For a very busy mind, there has to be different hats I can put on and take off all at the same time. I don't think I would ever feel fulfilled if I didn't get to do all of the things that pass through my brain. Some of them I have to put to one side. But for me so when you talk about, like, why you do this podcast and all those things, if it wasn't for people like you and the people that come onto those podcasts, I don't think I would have learned the lessons that I've learned. So I've learned so much by hearing other people's stories and working out where that relatability is. And then I started to think about my own stories and think, well, actually, if if I can help just a couple of people here too, like, what does that mean to me? And that started to sit really nicely. And then I set up this coaching business, and I tried to stop doing it many times because I thought, there's too much going on.
Bex Galligan [00:05:17]:
The last thing you need is all this pressure to be running this coaching thing on the side, and I couldn't stop it. I tried to put it down. I tried to stop it, and I couldn't. I just started to feel like I had too much that I wanted to say, too much to share this, like, innate feeling that I was doing good in the world. And then that kind of built a mantra that there is so much going on in the world, and I can't control much of it. But what I can do is make my corner a little bit better and hope that that ripple effect helps to kinda help other people feel better. So I'm not trying for world domination. I'm not trying to become a multimillionaire and stuff.
Bex Galligan [00:05:59]:
What I'm trying to do is just make that first ripple and hope that that kinda has has an effect elsewhere. Because if it wasn't for others, I wouldn't have had the experience of someone else's ripple. Sounds a bit cheesy. That's the best way I can word it because I thought purpose is like a feeling.
James Glover [00:06:17]:
Yeah.
Bex Galligan [00:06:18]:
It feels good. If it doesn't feel good, I don't do it.
James Glover [00:06:21]:
Yeah. Amazing. And the, well, there there's an immediate, like, just immediate connection there in terms of purpose being a feeling. That's the data. Right? That is the information that you try have to try and pay attention to. And and often, we kind of we just in a in a multitude of different ways, create distance from that information, and it doesn't really serve us very, very well. And so you talked there about listening to other people's stories and then starting to explore your own. What was it about hearing other people's experiences and through story that then motivated you to to do something for yourself.
James Glover [00:07:03]:
Because there is a 1,000,000,000 and 1 podcast out there. Right? And they're all giving they're all giving great in well, not all. Some more than others, giving great insights. But there's an there's an extra layer there of taking the insights and doing something with them. So what was it in the stories that then created that like, oh, I wanna do something with it?
Bex Galligan [00:07:24]:
Yeah. There there's probably a couple of different perspectives. One is, and I'm sure come back to this story, like I met, 2 coaches, 2 brilliant women who first introduced me to universal law and thinking about things much more diversely than I'd ever thought about before. I'd never ever experienced any kind of law of attraction or anything like that. But all of a sudden, that seemed to feel good, but I didn't ever feel like I wanted to go so far in it. And it was one of those where, well, hang on. That's that's helped me believing that there's, like, a higher purpose looking out for me here. How do I help other people that are feeling a bit vulnerable and not sure where to look to that hope.
Bex Galligan [00:08:09]:
Where do they find that hope? How do I help to share my level of experience of what that interaction has been like? So that opened one door, which is I learned. I feel better. How do I play that forward?
James Glover [00:08:23]:
Yeah. Nice.
Bex Galligan [00:08:24]:
And then I think the the second bit when it comes to podcasts and things, I probably feel like I'm the most confident I've ever been in life, which I would hope I would be because that means I'm moving forward. And there are sometimes when you hear people say things, you think, I could I've said that. I've said that loads of times. Actually, I think my version is actually better than what they've said or, well, they're missing these parts and do do it. But all these stories start to build in my own head where I was like, but, well, how come they're able to share that and help people? I have a different sponsor. How do I now get this out too? I I need to get this out of my head. And that was kind of the the other bit was a bit of kind of validation that the things that I thought, the the way that I felt, the experiences I'd had were something worth talking about, and they were worth helping other people with those things too. So I think, like, those 2 2 bits.
Bex Galligan [00:09:23]:
I have, like, an innate people pleasing thing in me, and this is me learning how to to not people please, but help. So it's the the balance.
James Glover [00:09:34]:
And there's there's, there's so much in that as well, Bex. Right? In that, I love this idea, this, like, this concept that the kind of the initial thing for me was, oh, this this made a difference to me. It might make a difference to others. So how do I pay it forward? So there was a a just a kind of desire to to help. But then there was a sense of validation of well, actually, it's not just me taking this kind of useful experience and going, hey. Look. Try this. It's me going, well, all of these experiences actually on this journey that I've had all stack up.
James Glover [00:10:06]:
And now I have a perspective and a view on the world that makes sense to me. And, actually, when I hear it played back through other people, I've probably got a way of being able to share it that feels a bit different, that feels a bit more unique, feels deeply personal, but actually might be easier to understand. So that kind of concept of validation was almost stacking 1 on top of the other. I guess it's kind of the impression that I'm getting.
Bex Galligan [00:10:30]:
Yeah. Totally. Because because being dyslexic and all the other dises that go with it, the way that stories are told makes makes such a difference to how I hear and experience them. So I want to almost, like, be the translator in some instances, but, like, put my own bits on it too and have that, wait, wait. Look, I've done it with these people and this thing and da da da da. So honestly, you really wanna get a hold of this. But the reason I wrote the book is because I had too much too many stories and too many things to say, and I couldn't get them out of my head, or I couldn't get them on an Instagram post or a LinkedIn post, but it was, like, all consuming. So I started to write it as a bit of a journal.
Bex Galligan [00:11:16]:
And then and then I think I saw a book or something. I was like, what what if it could be a book? And that's how that came about, where I just had too much that I needed to to get out and say, and that's where the book was born, really.
James Glover [00:11:32]:
Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. And you used a really, really powerful word a moment ago when you were describing that, that that kind of shift from hearing other people's experiences into kind of sharing your own, which is about well, it was hope. And it kind of really resonated with me because I I feel like I am somebody who is hopeful, and I definitely got that from my mom. And the idea that actually you experiencing hope, oh, wow. This could be better, and I hadn't necessarily considered it could be. I wonder if that could bring hope to others, really kind of resonated with me.
James Glover [00:12:10]:
So I'm I'm interested in kind of hope and hopefulness for you. Like, where does that where does that come from? Where does that sit?
Bex Galligan [00:12:17]:
So I would say that that is a huge identity. Hope and optimism for me, like, is is my personality. It's my belief system. It's irritating to others that don't sit like that because I will find the optimism or the opportunity in everything. That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the reality of where things are. I have to I have to have hope. And it lets me down sometimes. I it's great.
Bex Galligan [00:12:44]:
So my sister, I really hire on potential when I'm recruiting for people in my team because I hope that they'll reach their potential. I date men on their potential.
James Glover [00:12:55]:
No. I thought that was good. So thanks.
Bex Galligan [00:12:59]:
That always worked out so well for me. So I I hope that they'll reach their potential, and it doesn't. So the hope thing doesn't, but I I cannot live a life without hope. It just I can't I can't do it. So it's it is kind of an identity now is to always have that kind of positive outlook that what is there out there. And I think I see so many people that don't have an understanding of what hope can offer for them. So it's trying to see where does that hope scale fit for them. If they knew that they had it, if they knew that, you know, what's meant for you will never pass you by, what would that change in how you start to show up? Where can you just let things go a little bit more? Because if it's for you, you'll stumble across it.
Bex Galligan [00:13:53]:
You just have to kind of keep going on the path, put yourself in the right rooms, in the right conversations. And if you don't have the hope, you can't see the things that are in front of you.
James Glover [00:14:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Love it. Love it. And it was really interesting when I when I played back the word hope, your just body language changed on the, on the screen. Like, so for those that are watching on YouTube, they would have just seen you light up. For those that are listening to a podcast, like, Bex just became all kinds of animated on the other side of the screen there.
James Glover [00:14:20]:
I was like, oh, I need to shut up because she's got some stuff to say here.
Bex Galligan [00:14:24]:
Yeah. Hope and optimism is so, so important to me.
James Glover [00:14:29]:
But you mentioned something that I think, I think is probably important for us to explore, which is, you know, the kind of any strength overplayed actually can create cost to some degree and the kind of the learning of how to hold tension and almost kind of balance opposites. Sometimes, like, my, my my old boss and friend and mentor, John Gomes, used to just almost on a daily basis say to me, realistic optimism, please, James. Just a little bit of realistic optimism would be wonderful. Just try to reel me in from wherever I was at in terms of what the future was gonna gonna look like. Because because obviously, there is a need to kinda create that balance and hold those things intention. What you you talked about hiring on potential, dating on potential. Like, what how have you learned kind of hold that optimism intention, and what do you hold it intention with so that you don't kind of incur the costs that can come with it?
Bex Galligan [00:15:26]:
Yeah. So I've definitely been on the same learning journey as you because not everybody wants to be around someone that's like, oh my gosh. Wouldn't it be great if, that just doesn't go down well. I think the other one of my skills is what I call, like, bounce back ability. So I love learning lessons. So what I've learned through optimism is that it cannot exist on its own. So even in the book, the chapter on optimism is actually a chapter on grounded optimism. So I'm always pulling myself back.
Bex Galligan [00:15:58]:
So the other part of my brain is actually highly analytical. I just don't tap into enough if things are too exciting. So I try I try to consciously merge those two sides together, but I also surround myself with people that can balance me off. But but we have that really open conversation about knowing where our opposites are and how we come together. I think being open to challenge feedback makes it easier to do that. I'm more than happy to sit in a conversation and someone go, that's unrealistic. I'm like, I know. Can you help me see how we can either make it realistic? What do we need to consider? It's also leaning in on that a little bit as well.
Bex Galligan [00:16:40]:
If everybody has realism, then where does hope and ambition come from? And in so many businesses, if we just relied on the practical logistics of what's happening right now, we wouldn't ever really move forward. You have to have people that hold vision, hold hope, hold the exciting things to kind of pull the 2 together. It's just not that I accepted in the workplace that there is a place for that because the output looks different. I'm not giving you volume of things that you can qualify whether I've been productive or not. What I'm giving you is thoughts that don't necessarily happen anywhere else. So it's a very strange place to be, but I've definitely learned it doesn't it can't, unfortunately. Last one is saying for personal experiences and the work ones, I'm I'm much more in the grounded. Like, what what is the reality right now and the hope that goes with it?
James Glover [00:17:40]:
So I'm gonna quote one of our other guests, here, Simon Lamb, who talked he just kind of had this moment of inspiration in the conversation. He was like, yeah. People, need to realize they have value before they can create value. And he's like, oh, I've never really said that out loud before. That was good. And I was like, yeah. You said it on my podcast, shotgun. I'm getting it.
James Glover [00:18:02]:
But, but there's something here in, you know, the language that you're using, what I've learned about myself. My strengths are, a real deep core belief of mine is. And I'm wondering if you could just just talk to us for a moment of the journey that you've been on that's kind of shaped that learning. So what have been some of the what have been the moments that where you've kind of looked at them and experienced them and gone, wow. The world isn't ever gonna be the same again now that I've done and seen that, but has helped you get to this point where you're able to sit there with a level of confidence and play back? These are the things that that, that that that shaped me.
Bex Galligan [00:18:40]:
I would say that the the biggest moment was I can't remember how many years ago now. A few years ago, 5, maybe, let's say. I was unfortunately off work with stress, anxiety due to bullying. In my view of the world, it was it was bullying. And I just got to the point where I was like, I don't want to live like this anymore. So I'd written a a journal or something like, it's July at the end of July, I've cried every single day this month. And I just got to the point where I thought life has to be different. I I I just can't keep going on like this.
Bex Galligan [00:19:19]:
And that's where I found coaches. That's where I explored CBT. And because I was so wanted everything to be different, I just threw myself in. I was like, what do I need to learn? How do I start to understand these experiences so differently? So even though I'd always talked about my dyslexia loosely, I'd never really understood what it what it meant for me. I've never really let myself embrace dyslexia as as the gift it can be. Don't get me wrong. It has plenty of drawbacks. But I'd always held onto that I was thick.
Bex Galligan [00:19:54]:
I wasn't academically clever. There was no place in society for me because we only value academia in society's eyes. I can't live up to expectations because the things that other people find really easy are actually quite difficult for me. It's so hard for me to be on time. Like, it's so hard. And then you'll see those things that says, like, be on time costs you nothing. Everybody can do it. I'm like, do do you know what it takes me to be on time? I will try my hardest.
Bex Galligan [00:20:25]:
So I I needed things to be different, and I needed to explore. And then once I started to lean in on those experiences for what they can offer me, like, life shifted. So I I left that job. I got a great new job. I left that relationship. I went into my dream home. I got my dream car. And everything just seemed to get better the more that I was willing to lift the lids and learn what was happening.
Bex Galligan [00:20:54]:
So then it became a why would I stop on this growth journey if where I look at life now and 5 years ago, it's it's unrecognizable. The confidence, everything is just unrecognizable. So so why wouldn't I listen to a podcast and go, What do I think about that? Or, What do I know about that? And then I started to tap into positive psychology, which then unlocked this whole new world where I was like, hang on a second. So we're saying that my happiness is actually like, we can scientifically prove that being happy is great. This this is unreal. All the things that I'd been thinking. And when I started to piece together, like, my career history and all the things that went well, then I realized that when I was leaning in on my strengths, when I knew my strengths, when I was intentionally looking after myself with all these things, it was paying off. So I feel like I've unlocked a secret here, and I need to tell everybody everybody about it.
Bex Galligan [00:21:56]:
So understanding my own strengths has helped them up to new levels for me, and that's one of the things like the starting point I'll always start with people is, do you even know what you're good at? And most most don't. They don't even know what their values are. It it like, there's so much to unpack in that. Hence, I had to write a book about it to to help people find that. And that's what I wanted to share because I I couldn't have gone on how I was. There had to be a catalyst for change. And then now I'm like, oh, look. Short space of time.
James Glover [00:22:34]:
And Bec's like, there's just, there's, like, there's just so much in in what you're sharing. I love that language of lift the lid. Right? The second that I actually lifted the lid and I started to kind of poke around under the bonnet and go, oh, that's why that works. And, oh, that's why that works. And, oh, when I look at that, I understand more about who I am and I connect with a greater level of intention. And not only that, it's a good thing. What? There's almost a I'm wondering what would have happened if you'd have lifted the lid earlier or if they'd have been the opportunity for somebody to help you lift the lid earlier. You know, if you hadn't had to get to this kind of crushing low point, which by the way sounds horrific, like, to be to have to write that and to be able to see that, like, there's a huge amount of pain that you're confronting in that in that moment.
James Glover [00:23:28]:
Imagine if some there had been an intervention before that where you would have been able to see all of that magic and therefore not have to endure that. Is there is there a part of this which is now just pure motivation for you, which is how do I help other people lift the lid as often as possible and as early as possible into what makes them magic?
Bex Galligan [00:23:51]:
Definitely. There's there's definitely I don't want anybody else to be in that position. I'm also so I did talk on gratitude the other day. Because at no point in that moment where I was off work and feeling like that did I go, I'm so grateful I feel like this right now. But now I can look back and say, if it wasn't for those experiences, I wouldn't have unlocked this level. And if I'd learned earlier, would it have meant as much to me? I don't know. I don't know if I'd have been as committed into understanding what being dyslexic at 5 really meant for me as a story because it just have kind of it wasn't so bad. So you don't need to lift the lid on that topic, do we? We just kind of yeah.
Bex Galligan [00:24:36]:
Of course, I'm dyslexic. So I don't think if it had come out earlier, it would have had the impact that it's had. So I'm glad it happened in the way that it did. I learned some very valuable lessons. I've definitely learned about what I do and don't tolerate in some conversations and behaviors from people. It's still absolutely a learning journey, but I've never been back in that position again. When it comes to helping others, if you are going to experience it, I wanna know I want people to feel that they've got somewhere they can go to. I can't prevent anybody from feeling what it is that they might go through.
Bex Galligan [00:25:16]:
Nobody can. But if you do, I'm here. As soon as you need it, there is resources. There's a a person. There's whatever you need, you you don't have to go through it alone. I think my biggest thing was that there was a period of time when I didn't know what or where to go, and that's the bit I want to get rid of for people. It's not necessarily the experience because some people might need that, but it's that bit of lost. I don't know who to talk to.
Bex Galligan [00:25:45]:
I don't know where to turn to. That's the bit I want to make sure that nobody has to do that bit alone because that's the scary eviction. Like, oh, how how do I where where is that first hand that pulls me pulls me out?
James Glover [00:26:00]:
I've got about 8 questions all in my head all exactly the same time, and I'm, like, pausing. So I'm like, I just I just need to pick 1.
Bex Galligan [00:26:06]:
Which one? I need
James Glover [00:26:06]:
to pick 1. Yeah. And I and I think that's because I'm torn between 2 things. Like, part of me is how is that how is that realization, like, the granularity in that realization? You can't stop these things happening to people because the best thing in the world for people is people, and the worst thing in the world for people is people. So there are always gonna be those kind of negative interactions, negative moments. You can't limit that. But in that specific moment, I want them to know that there is somewhere that they can go because the isolation, the loneliness of not knowing is actually the thing that can do the damage. So there's there's something about you realizing the kind of the granularity of the bit that you want to help.
James Glover [00:26:47]:
And so part one question, how does that then inform the way in which you're going to work now and the things that you're doing now? I guess the second question is you talking about the impact and the power of that moment for you and actually the kind of the gratitude towards it. Like, how long because there's a real human experience here. How long did it take you to be able to sit in this moment now and look back and go, well, that was a horror show. But thank god for it because like, what Yeah. What was that experience like?
Bex Galligan [00:27:17]:
I think, that initial because I would say that's, like, the first time I'd had that experience of of being somewhere I didn't like and then bouncing back. That took longer to have appreciation for. But as I started to recognize that life got better, I started to appreciate the things that I'd gone through. So I'd got a great new boss, and he was so supportive of helping me reach my potential. He gave me all the support network around. And if I hadn't have experienced I wouldn't have met him, which helped me to unlock new levels there. So all of a sudden, I was like, I wouldn't have left that other job, and I wouldn't be experiencing this. So I wasn't then at the point where I'm like, thank you.
Bex Galligan [00:28:06]:
But I was like, there's a reason here. Then when I started to level up my friendships again, and I started to move into my dream home and start to live dream life. And then I thought, okay. So I'm now grateful as well that I've kind of saw the light and left that relationship that wasn't serving me in the best way. So I would say that took a while. The more recent experience I've had, unfortunately, is I had a stroke last year. We bumped into each other, didn't we, in West Ridgeford? And much quicker have I accepted and acknowledged that that was meant for me. As or as weird as that sounds because that was the catalyst for so many other things as well.
Bex Galligan [00:28:50]:
And I can see that much clearer and much quicker that that was put in my path for a reason. If it wasn't for that, I would never have had the time to really sit down and put the book into the way it was meant to be. It wouldn't have meant as much to me to have had that. I wouldn't have come across a contact who then hooked me up with the Wagamama thing, which helped my recovery. And all of those things wouldn't have happened had I not had that moment. So I think as you start to understand how hindsight is such a wonderful thing, and you can learn a lot. I think it's it's changed that bounce back ability to I'll always know I'll be okay. I don't know if it'll take a year, 10 years, 2 months.
Bex Galligan [00:29:38]:
I always know I'll be fine now. So that gives me a whole level of confidence to go into new experiences and other things. Because if I if I fail, I learn. And if I win, I win. Great. I'm okay. This is epic. Do you
James Glover [00:29:52]:
think do you think that you need to have experiences like those in order to feel the way you feel now? Like, the the kind of the conviction that you have for, either I've if I fail, I learn, and if I win, I win. Like, in either way is a win. Like, do do you need to have that to get that?
Bex Galligan [00:30:13]:
I don't think people do. I think I sometimes do. So I think with such a busy mind and so many things that go through my head, the thoughts aren't always clear which ones to pick up on. So I feel like what my body does is it tells me. My body literally nudges me onto a different path because I can't pick through what what thoughts do I need to be paying attention to here. So I think the way that I'm wired probably do need some of these experiences to have the whole body shift onto where the track I'm meant to be on. If it was left up to my mind, I could argue myself into or out of a paper bag. I am.
Bex Galligan [00:30:57]:
So it doesn't always help me. I am I could see every side of every coin and every argument. I'm a huge empath. It means I get stuck a lot of the time. I spin wheels. So I I do think for me, not that I am calling in more of these disasters because don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong.
James Glover [00:31:18]:
Thank you very much.
Bex Galligan [00:31:20]:
We're only that.
James Glover [00:31:21]:
What what is enough?
Bex Galligan [00:31:23]:
1, there are the positive life shifts as well, which also do that same thing to me. So the moment I realized that I had bought the car that I had on my vision board was also a shift from being, like, just motoring along to you've you've literally got to a new level. You set out a level, you're here that you can't that there's no dropping. So that is is a similar thing. It's not always about the bad stuff. I really don't wanna be calling in bad things.
James Glover [00:31:56]:
Well, I I think the, I think we can kind of safeguard you from the universe on this on this occasion because ultimately, you're sharing experience in order to be able to help others. So, I think it's important that the universe pays attention to the messages that are being shared and being proud of it. But, yeah, there's that that subtlety in and I and I, again, I love the way that you're able to articulate the difference between what's happening in your mind and what's happening in your body and what then you're paying attention to and where where the nudge is actually coming from. Because for for lots of people, certainly lots of people that I deal with, they're, like, so super cerebral. Even those that are kind of emotionally aware, the the data can be a bit overwhelming. And so being able to feel, understand kinda Intuit from different parts of their whole can be the difference between making a decision that they feel really aligned with and a decision that they've just, to your point, logic themself into somewhere along the line. How, outside of, like, the big, the the kind of the big moments, how do you more intentionally now take the time to pay attention to your body rather than just kind of succumbing to the busyness of the mind?
Bex Galligan [00:33:17]:
Yeah. I've I've I've had to become more aware because the advice I was given was, my mind thrives in stress, my body doesn't. And so my mind was able to cope, but my body wasn't. So I've had to to find more connections. I also realized that all the things that had happened, I knew what I was walking into on all of those occasions, but I chose to let my head overall what I couldn't articulate as a feeling. I remember when I joined, the company that wasn't so great. I've gone, something's off, but they're offering me a lot of money. So I'm gonna do it anyway.
Bex Galligan [00:34:00]:
And I and I didn't listen. So I'm much better, not by any means perfect, at connecting the 2 together. So that I'm sitting in feelings much more. I made a business decision not long ago to not work with someone because it didn't feel like I wanted things to feel when I I wanted it to be fun and exciting. I didn't want it to feel political or like it doesn't work. But the whole point in having this side business is it doesn't feel like work. So I didn't wanna do that. So I'm just a bit more adding in intuition into that decision making and having more awareness.
Bex Galligan [00:34:43]:
It also comes back to you can't really turn around to someone as like, does it feel like this is the right thing? They're like, oh, yes. That feeling that you can't describe. Got it. Let's make a decision based on that, Becky. Woo hoo. So it's it's really hard to tap into intuition or whatever you call it. When you can't explain it, you just like so it's icky. So it's just not raw not good.
James Glover [00:35:11]:
Well and and again, how cool is it that you're able to say there's this really powerful motivation that I can now understand and that I pay attention to. I just really struggle to be able to convince other people on it. And there's a part of me that's going, well, there's something wrong in that, isn't it? Like, the need to try and have to convince somebody because actually you're just feeling something that feels off. And therefore you'd rather not. Thanks. Like but but there's almost an inherent that's not gonna be good enough. Like they're not gonna get that So I've gotta come up with something else. And I think sometimes that's part of our problem, isn't it, as human beings and our kind of misalignment around communication is sometimes we're trying to express things that we don't have the words for.
James Glover [00:35:59]:
And sometimes we're trying to convince others for the things that we know we feel to be true. And, actually, there's they're never gonna get it anyway because it's coming from a place that they can't possibly begin to understand. Yeah. There's a, like, a how do we create how do we just create the ability to feel a bit judgment free and all of that and just go, hey. It's okay. You do you and you be you, but do it over there because actually I'm feeling some stuff that means I wanna be over here.
Bex Galligan [00:36:26]:
It I I don't know how we ever tackle it because I think it's the same as when I first decided to start coaching and people like, what qualifications have you got? Look. What I'm trying to do is share my story. And if people connect and resonate with them, help them through it. What do you mean? What qualifications have I got? Then also I was like, oh, good. They used to go do all these qualifications now because that's the only way I'll feel validated that I can help anybody. And it I think the story the safety in the data and the evidence, and that is what people want. So I don't know how you close the gap because
James Glover [00:37:05]:
Yeah. Well, see now now you're gonna get me on my I'd like we were we were well, we Bex and I were talking before the the podcast about swearing and, like, acknowledgment of being swearing. Well, I was acknowledging being a swear person. You, to be fair, were not acknowledging being I don't wanna lump you into the the same the same way.
Bex Galligan [00:37:24]:
Your labels.
James Glover [00:37:25]:
But the, the the yeah, the the you gave me a very good out, which is, yeah, you swell like a trooper if it's, you know, you're expressing passion. I was about to come out with some excuses, but the there's there is, the answer in what you're describing from my perspective, which is that they there is comfort and safety in the data and in the information. Right? And so people want the confirmation of the data and the information. Do you have a qualification? We both know that there are literally thousands of shocking coaches who have all got the bit of paper. Shocking. Right? Shocking. They do far more harm than they do good. We've all got the bit of paper.
James Glover [00:38:09]:
Right? So immediate challenge to anybody that's just going give me the now I'm not pooh poohing the, the benefits of going through that process at all. There's a huge amount of learning attached. And, yes, we need to create a more robust industry around coaching where, like, credibility can be assessed in a in a really brilliant way. But just because you have the bit of paper does not make you a great coach. Like, that is not a real thing. And so the bit of the bit that I get really passionate about is what is the data that we're paying attention to because feeling an emotion is data. It's information. And why can that not be just as valid?
Bex Galligan [00:38:48]:
I I I
James Glover [00:38:48]:
totally agree. The fight.
Bex Galligan [00:38:50]:
I know. And I don't I don't know how you get that. I just want to reinforce what you just said. There are some brilliant people that have qualifications and some not so good ones. Like, I'm not missing it. Side comment, though. I think that when people ask me for qualifications, it's extremely triggering because that comes back to being book smart. So you want me to be book smart and you're questioning the level of intelligence because I haven't passed a course.
Bex Galligan [00:39:18]:
You're not questioning my level of capability in what it is that I'm trying to do here, which is to build relationships, to understand what people are and aren't saying when they're saying words to me. Like how how on earth would you teach that really? How do you teach someone to truly listen to what's not being said? Like it I I had no idea where you'd even start. So it's those little things that that when we're just academically validating, you're missing out on those things. I go down such a hole when I come to this because then I start to go down. Everything that you see around you started in someone's mind. They they didn't know that when they had vision for an Eiffel Tower that it would happen until they start to get people to buy into the vision, and they start to have people around them to help make like, all of these things started from someone's gut and intuition and mind and then became something. So you have to start with the the data point that you can't validate. If you want to great.
Bex Galligan [00:40:26]:
But that that's a whole that's a whole rabbit hole. I'll be going for hours starting to be like
James Glover [00:40:32]:
Next podcast. We're getting date we're getting next back to talk about the data points that you can't validate. No.
Bex Galligan [00:40:37]:
This computer started in someone's mind. How did somebody understand the wiring that would go into a computer being able to like, oh.
James Glover [00:40:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. Don't get don't even get me started. I just like the fact that when I press the button, they start. I have no idea
Bex Galligan [00:40:52]:
what's happening
James Glover [00:40:53]:
in there
Bex Galligan [00:40:53]:
at all. Like Yeah. You hear me, Ben?
James Glover [00:40:56]:
But so talk to me, Bex, about how all of these kind of experiences and the richness of all of these experiences now kind of come together in a way that helps you feel a sense of fulfillment, that helps you feel purposeful in what you're doing?
Bex Galligan [00:41:15]:
I would say that I've never leaned in to my strengths as much as I have now. So I am extremely open in the way that my mind likes to work and in the value that I offer in conversations that doesn't look like a traditional, here's a PowerPoint, therefore, you know I've done a good job. And my confidence has grown with that. So there is I think that in my view of the world, there's a direct correlation to leaning into this, confidence growing, everything else seems to be growing in line with it. Don't get me wrong. I still have to make priority calls. Not everything can have equal priority at the same time, but, generally, things seem to go in the same direction. So then then I take that, and I think so if if that's happening for me, if others had a similar experience where they just started to understand a little bit more about themselves, and they had the opportunity to validate themselves, and they had the opportunity to speak up and represent themselves and lean in on those things, like, where would where would they end up? And and that's why I focus on careers because I've really enjoyed my career.
Bex Galligan [00:42:36]:
I love to talk to people about work, and that's where I think I can have the most impact. I would love that people understood what what's important to you, what are your values, and are you working in a company that has a a match or a mismatch? If it's a mismatch, it's always gonna be a mismatch, but you're creating your own disengagement and unhappiness as you go through that journey of trying to force there to be a connection when there isn't one. And just trying to help people see their careers differently because we all have to work. Every single person has to earn money somehow to get all the things they need, whether it's on a £1,000,000 scale or, like, I need £10 this week. But too many don't think about it enough that they are creating their own cycle of unhappiness. And that's what I wanna help people see differently is that you can turn up to work and you can enjoy it. But you have to understand you have a part to play in that. You can't just turn around and be like, my company wants me to do this.
Bex Galligan [00:43:47]:
Do you know what you want? And one little tangent and then we'll come back. Remote working, hybrid working, whatever you wanna call it. Like, I find this such a fascinating topic. I don't have a stance on what is right or wrong. What I do have a stance on is too many people choosing what I believe is their easy option and not what actually matters to them. So we are creating more levels of depression and social isolation through remote working, as people, we really value social connection. You build better relationships with people by being able to see eye contact, read body language. You might be getting that from your gym friends or the other things that you do outside of work.
Bex Galligan [00:44:32]:
But there is more to be said that there is so much value to being with people that actually might outweigh being able to put your washing on in the morning. And as long as you're thinking about that, clearly, I have no problems with what you decide to do. But too many people are sitting there going, we're not working because I don't want to commute for 2 hours. What if 2 hours was development time of listening to podcasts and really enriching your brain that by the time you got to work, you're adding so much more value. Then more can you get all the social interaction. So why is that bad time?
James Glover [00:45:07]:
Yeah. And I don't think it's a tangent at all, actually. I think it's squarely in the middle of this conversation because you you used 3 phrases there that I think, that that that talk to purpose massively. So for me, right, purpose is an outcome. It's an out it's the same as happiness. Happiness is an outcome. You you need to do some stuff. Yeah.
James Glover [00:45:29]:
Happiness is the outcome. You need to do some stuff, and you feel purposeful. Right? That's the and and often, people understanding what matters to them, what is meaningful, and then making a contribution to the things that are meaningful, that creates purpose. So purpose really simply is just meaning in action. That's all we're really talking about. Right? And you said there you talked about, do you know what you want? Then you said not enough people knowing what matters to them. And then talking about the consequence of the easy choice. Right? There it it's not just about, remote working, hybrid working, flexible working, whatever it may be.
James Glover [00:46:15]:
Look at the world around us. It is littered with examples of how the easy choice creates cost. Social media. Social media is a way to be able to distract the brain and literally numb us from dealing with reality. And ever since the advent of the iPhone, depression in teenagers, suicide in t the suicide tendencies in teenagers. Like, it's literally bad for us. It isn't bad for us. The way in which we utilize it and access it is bad for us.
James Glover [00:46:47]:
So unless we make effortful choices, which is I'm not gonna be on it all the time, I'm gonna be on it in these moments, the cost is really negative. And the same with high hybrid working, Actually, yeah. You know what? There are some days in the week where I would just benefit from the space of being away from other people in order to there's this in my life and there's this in the way that I'm trying to these tasks that I'm trying to focus on at work and the space and the boundary would be brilliant. But equally, I need to make the effort to put shoes on a couple of times a week and go somewhere because I need other people. I can't exist in isolation. You can really somebody up by just keeping them in isolation. Like that's why we put people in prison. Yeah.
James Glover [00:47:30]:
The worst prisoners are kept by themselves. Like you know what? Yeah. There there are just so many practical examples. So they're so the just kinda closing the loop here. The thing that comes up in conversation in this podcast quite a lot that I don't think people want to hear or they do but don't acknowledge is that all of these things require effort. Right? You being in a really difficult moment in time, having been really severely bullied, you had to lift the lid. Right? You didn't you you could have made a different choice, which is not to lift the lid and to kinda succumb to that situation. And people would have seen that as being a rational outcome to that scenario.
James Glover [00:48:09]:
Like, you have been traumatized by that experience, and therefore, you've kind of removed yourself, and it's gone into something that feels very difficult to step out of. You didn't. You put in a greater level of effort and went, hold on. Do I have to feel this? Do I have to stay in this place? Do I have to live this life? No. What does that take? Takes effort. Right? And then when you think about the the kind of the like, you had a stroke. You are a young woman and you had a stroke. And actually the thing that you're saying now is, wow, I don't ever want another one of those.
James Glover [00:48:42]:
But man, did I recover from that far quicker because of the fact I put effort in before. I know where to put the effort in now. None of these things, right, come you don't manifest your dream car, your dream house, or become a best selling author, or any of those things without the effort.
Bex Galligan [00:48:59]:
Yeah. You don't they don't come by just sitting there. And what I would say is it's absolutely not easy, and I still have not mastered the effort goes in the right places. It's always an ever changing thing. There's always so many other things that dictate the where the effort goes. I would love it. I would love to be a 5 AM person that wakes up and is like, my day? What can I do with all this time? I I try so hard. I'm like, I just I can't.
Bex Galligan [00:49:33]:
So I've just acknowledged that I'm I'm not a 5 AM person, but I still kind of want to be. That that level of effort, you know, I have my sometimes I'm not willing to put the effort in.
James Glover [00:49:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. But but, again, the the therein lies the rub. Right? Which is, it's Tony Robbins where, where focus goes, energy flows. And, we kinda need to learn that if we put energy in certain places, we get certain outcomes. If we put it in other places, we get other outcomes. And, actually, what are the outcomes that we're trying to achieve? What are the things that work for us? And then realize that we're messy, and we're gonna get it wrong and wrong and wrong and wrong and wrong. And there are gonna be disrupt disruptive forces outside of who we are that's gonna influence that anyway.
James Glover [00:50:20]:
The point is that you're still trying, and there's still you're still willing to invest the effort in understanding and doing something.
Bex Galligan [00:50:31]:
And But but why wouldn't I when? I I I honestly when I think about where I was 5 years ago and where I am now, I I can't think why I wouldn't carry on on this, like, trajectory because what life has to offer if I carry on at this rate is is so exciting. The opposite is is so dull that I want I'm almost like, that's easy. That's an easy choice. Yeah. So why wouldn't I just check on the podcast and just have a little listen to what somebody's saying? Because it's less good of my nose, is it, to just
James Glover [00:51:09]:
So give us give us the, give us the future focus, Bex. Like, where is this kind of sense of purpose directing you? Where is it taking you? When you look forward at future leaps of faith, What what does that look like?
Bex Galligan [00:51:26]:
I will not be working in corporate world for long, and I will make a mission in 2 areas. 1 is to help more companies understand the impact that they have on people's well-being and happiness at work and how to bridge that gap, helping more people understand what their contribution is in their own happiness at work. So that's one of the things. And then my other passion is golf. And I really hate that so few women under the age of 50 get a chance to play golf, and I've been to some networking things recently around golf. So many deals and everything are done on the golf course, and women are just missing out. So my other is once I free up the time by not working in the corporate world, then I will try and make golf more accessible to young women so that we don't miss out on opportunities.
James Glover [00:52:24]:
Wow. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. I love that. I love I love a parallel mission that, like, one one influencing another. And, and it doesn't even feel like a leap of faith, Bex, given given what you've described.
James Glover [00:52:40]:
Like, I love the I love leaps of faith. I love this idea of, like, just kinda going into the unknown and not knowing what what's gonna what's gonna happen. But given the the stories that you have shared and the experiences that you've had, it doesn't even feel like a leap of faith. It just feels like, oh, those are the next things. Come back come back on the podcast and be like, alright. This is my networking event now. We've run this many different golf days. These are the deals that have been done.
James Glover [00:53:03]:
This is the value of them.
Bex Galligan [00:53:05]:
So because I had a thought through the night. It's like, oh, I could just start with, like, 1 Friday a month. Women, come and join me, and we'll have, brunch afterwards. And I was like, Bex, you've got way too much on your plate right now. You don't need to start doing that just yet. Do that can wait.
James Glover [00:53:22]:
Alright, Bex. I think that's a perfect place for us to pause with you, giving us an example of how you're managing your busy mind in real time. Thank you so much for for being with us. And, yeah, really wonderful conversation, and excited to see what what happens for you going forward.
Bex Galligan [00:53:42]:
Thank you very much for having me and for doing everything you do on a podcast, getting up and running and being able to share people's stories. You don't know who you'll affect, but I'm sure it'll be many.
James Glover [00:53:51]:
Thank you, and you're welcome. Massive thank you for taking the time to listen to the excitable soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding, and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs at theexcitable soul dot com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.