Episode #25: Laurence Halsted
Life Purpose and Leadership: Laurence Halsted on Finding Meaning and Autonomy
Welcome to The Excitable Soul Podcast! Joining us today is Laurence Halsted, a former British Olympic fencer who has transitioned into influential leadership roles within the sports and nonprofit sectors.
Laurence takes us on a journey through his life, highlighting the critical role luck and external factors played in shaping his remarkable career. He opens up about his experience as a professional fencer during the exciting time of the London Olympics, his shift in mindset towards resilience and mindfulness, and the contentment that helped him navigate the ups and downs of an athletic career.
We dive deep into Laurence’s philosophical views on purpose, touching on his transition from a self-focused mindset to one centered on leadership and meaningful connections. He shares personal anecdotes, including his decision to prohibit his father from watching his competitions at the tender age of 14, and a pivotal moment in 2012 that completely transformed his approach to fencing and life.
Now serving as the performance director for the Danish Fencing Federation and actively mentoring athletes, Laurence reflects on the themes of autonomy, peace, and the uncertainty that comes with making life-changing decisions. As we explore the power of mindful arrival, join us for this enlightening conversation that promises to inspire and provoke thoughtful consideration of your own sources of peace and purpose.
Tune in as we uncover the story of an excitable soul who embarked on a journey from the fencing piste to impactful leadership, guided by luck, resilience, and a deep connection to his true alignment.
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Read the transcript here
James Glover [00:00:09]:
Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you. So let's get going, shall we? Today, we're joined by Laurence Halstead, a 2 time British Olympic fencer and multiple European medalist who competed at both the London and Rio Olympic games.
James Glover [00:00:59]:
After a decade of elite performance, Laurence transitioned to roles as performance director of a National Federation and head mentor at a UK nonprofit, the True Athlete Project. Laurence has pioneered approach to achieving high performance while thriving as a person. His philosophy introduces a novel view of resilience, emphasizing a mindful, compassionate approach to life as healthier and more sustainable in delivering our outcomes. In 2021, he published his first book on this philosophy aiming to help athletes rediscover the true value of their sport. Now
Laurence Halsted [00:01:33]:
Lawrence is
James Glover [00:01:33]:
on a mission to extend this philosophy beyond sport inspiring broader audiences. Lawrence is the absolute embodiment of this philosophy. His voice alone in this conversation will help calm your soul. So enjoy. Okay. Welcome back to the Excitable Soul podcast. Mega, mega excited for my guest today. How are you doing, my friend?
Laurence Halsted [00:02:01]:
I am arriving very well. I've had a good week. I've, got a nice afternoon ahead, so I'm in a good place for this chat.
James Glover [00:02:08]:
Brilliant. And and we should probably say, like, when you just used that word there, arrival. We should probably just let people peek behind the curtain for a moment in that you and I actually did a mindful arrival before we started this this conversation in that there were a few tech challenges for us both to be able to log on, and to say that we were kind of in a heightened state when we when we finally got to see one another. We created that moment of pause and calm before we kind of engage in the process. And that's something that you have introduced me to quite quite recently. Can you just talk me through before we kinda get into anything else, talk me through where did that come into your your kind of your experiences and, and and how has it helped and supported you?
Laurence Halsted [00:02:53]:
Well, I mean, I've been a kind of practice mindfulness for nearly 20 years now, but that idea of a mindful arrival, a mindful check-in came in with the the work we do at the True Athlete Project. So we are so we'll talk more about it, but we're a mindfulness based organization. So we get we kinda thread mindfulness through all of what we do. And a lot of our programs are online, and they're mixed groups, kind of athletes, coaches coming from all sorts of different places in a day, usually in an evening. So that's when we get people free. And it's just a really lovely way to kind of bring people to land together, drop a little bit of everything they're coming from, dinner and travel and training or whatever it is, and find some space, a calmer, quieter space in themselves, but also with each other. So it's just a tool that we use for every one of our sessions, basically.
James Glover [00:03:46]:
Yeah. And the the impact is is dramatic. When you you know, for those that are kind of listening to us, if you have had a frantic, day or morning or afternoon, wherever you are and you're listening to us, just to be able to intentionally pause and just sit. And especially with a group of other people and take a breath, it's it's phenomenal in terms of how it just dramatically shifts and changes your own internal state, but also a a really natural and organic sense of connection to to to others. It's it's it's kind of really hacking the human physiology.
Laurence Halsted [00:04:24]:
Yeah. And I and I use it personally now for kind of meetings or coaching sessions that I run. I always make sure I have a a few minutes. I mean, 2, 3 minutes is enough just to kind of kind of ground myself, settle into right now, and leave what I've had behind just to be present. So it really works.
James Glover [00:04:43]:
Yeah. And I don't know about everybody else listening to the podcast, but just listen to Lawrence's voice. Like, it's calming me just listening to his tone and his pace. So, hopefully that will be the type of conversation that we're bringing to you today. So, yeah, we're really grateful to have you on the podcast, Laurence. Your your experience, your background, the journey that you've been on, the adventures that you've had, have have all really centered around a sense of purpose in one shape or form. And I'm really excited to understand, like, where your level of conscious connection to purpose came from across that that journey and those adventures. Because there's assumption from my perspective that it would have been playing out at points in time when you wouldn't really be aware of it, and then there will be other times where you've really kind of you've you've accessed it.
James Glover [00:05:34]:
And so to kind of hear hear that, that that almost awakening, I'm really keen to to kind of give a sense of that. But, almost before we dive into that, what what is purpose to you? What does it mean to you?
Laurence Halsted [00:05:51]:
Well, I'm well prepared for this question because you asked it in a in a session that you you ran for us recently, so I was thinking about it before. And it it has come to mean more of a feeling, more of an emotion of, as I said to you before, kind of a deep peace and calm that I'm in the right place doing the right thing. And I can sense it on a daily kind of minute by minute basis or just generally kind of in my life right now in this space. Am I in the right place? So it's more yeah. It's become a feeling from us something sort of cognitive or cyclical concept. It now it feel feels very embodied as as to whether I'm I'm living in line or am I in my purpose or or drifting away.
James Glover [00:06:39]:
Yeah. And there's some, powerful words in there already, like, am I in line was is is one thing. And that shift from a kind of cognitive to feeling state or feeling connection. Just talk to us a little bit more about those 2 things. Like, how how and when did that shift from, like, the kind of the cerebral to the emotional? How did that happen? And also, when you talk about that kind of alignment, what are the things for you that are kind of all are aligning that create the sense of peace?
Laurence Halsted [00:07:17]:
So the shift to this kind of felt sense isn't it's come in more recent years, like, the last few years, I think, where in a more general sense, I've started to kind of lean into embodied emotions, embodied feelings as guiding kind of as guides for how I'm living. And I think I've just come from a very kind of pragmatic, often skeptical cognitive place on on most things. Even though I've I've kind of practiced I've been meditating for a long time, I've still been in that very cognitive place. And then in the last 3, 4 years, have just been much more interested in the more nebulous, less definable, intuitive space of kind of understanding through through not the brain, through not thinking. And so that's aligned. I mean, his purpose is one of the ways in which I kind of connect to that or is coming out of that. But it's been yeah. It's only a recent thing that I've thought about it in that sense.
Laurence Halsted [00:08:26]:
And before that, I guess, I've had this idea about what I want to be doing, but it's all all been up there. Like, what should I do? What are my options? Where am I gonna go? Like, very decision making. Like, it's I haven't been far from kind of a sense of purpose for a long time, but it's my understanding of it has shifted since then.
James Glover [00:08:47]:
And how has that shift enable what was the impact of that shift, if you like? So that greater level of clarity, that greater level of insight, almost the acceptance of a different type of information and data, what's that then, yeah, what's that then enabled?
Laurence Halsted [00:09:06]:
Starting with tough questions, James. Things I've not Yeah. Not thought about.
James Glover [00:09:11]:
There's no preparation for this.
Laurence Halsted [00:09:16]:
What's it enabled? I think, like, although I like I say, I think I've lived feel like I've lived very closely aligned with with purpose for a long time, almost since I left school. And these last few years, there's it's gone to a somewhat heightened level, probably aligned with this shift towards a felt sense of it. And I I guess they're connected. I don't know how, but, the that's that's very clear to me that maybe it is that that's allowed me to connect even deeper to what what is in true alignment and not just kind of roughly there there or thereabouts. So but I've definitely felt that these last few years have been absolutely, like, I I couldn't be doing anything better than what I've been doing these few years.
James Glover [00:10:07]:
Yeah. Amazing. And maybe let's, I'm gonna hold the last few years because there's an immediate curiosity like, oh, what what is it about the last few years that has helped you kind of really feel that sense of of alignment and connection to purpose? But you talked there about, I don't think I've been far away from it since I left school. So maybe kind of just take us back a little bit on the on the journey. Where where are the where are the what are the kind of the moments that have really shaped who you are and your sense of connection to purpose?
Laurence Halsted [00:10:38]:
Yeah. And I say since school because school was a fairly uninteresting place for me, and that's a long period to be uninterested. I wasn't very engaged except for sport in school. It wasn't the place where I was thriving. And the day I left school was the beginning of me thriving on on all in all ways. And it's just got better and better since then, really, literally, the leaving day was just a great day in my life. And then I had a gap year. And then I had 3 years of uni, which would just could not have gone better, like, unbelievable fun.
Laurence Halsted [00:11:16]:
Then I became a professional athlete off the back of graduating. So it just that, like, leaving day was like, okay. Now life can can really start. So I I felt I really feel since then, I've been I've been in a place of I mean, obviously, with ups and downs in terms of mood and kind of how things are going, but with no real doubt about, am I doing the right thing? Am I am I on a good course? Because it was just and that that was, again, that was a cognitive way of just knowing, like, I I shouldn't be doing anything else than this here. Even if it's going down or I'm having a bad month or a bad year in some cases, like, there's nowhere else I should be than than this. And I've I've felt like that pretty much ever since then.
James Glover [00:11:59]:
I mean, that's incredible to to be able to have that experience, full stop, but have that experience from that point of time and it continue. Like, there is there is some magic that we need to kind of uncover and get into there so the people that are listening can can can wrestle with that for them for themselves. But there's a there's a curiosity here immediately for me where, you know, like, school was not the place. Right? I was not interested. I was not engaged. The second it was over, I was free. I've I've got this kind of image of of the bird being released from the cage and just, poof, taking taking flight. But what was interesting is then and this kind of caught me off guard, and I guess that's why I'm responding to it is you went, oh, yeah.
James Glover [00:12:43]:
I went off to university, and I loved that. So it's not it wasn't about the learning. It wasn't about the education necessarily because there's learning and education, you know, in in universe usually. But but, but there was a distinction between that kind of learning environment. So what was the distinction for you from this caged sense to this freed sense even though it was still about kind of learning and growth and development, etcetera?
Laurence Halsted [00:13:09]:
Well, that was exactly it. It was it was from a place where I had a place of authority in school. Teachers were above to students in the hierarchy, telling you what you had to do, what homework you had to do, when you had to be there. Just everything was you you had no author autonomy in it. And I can I know that autonomy is just a huge part of what drives me, what makes me feel like I'm I'm doing doing well? So moving from that, I mean, I wasn't the most academic minded person at university. And that wasn't either the stuff I really enjoyed. I studied psychology. I enjoyed it.
Laurence Halsted [00:13:45]:
But I wasn't, like, dedicated to my course. It's a course that I I enjoyed, and it got me through, and I did fine. But it was everything around it. It was it was really it was being let loose in a kind of adult sense finally that made it all so so great. And, I mean, it probably was as simple as that. I was moving from a kid to an adult, and I that I just never really struck well with authority and being told what to do.
James Glover [00:14:12]:
Yeah. Wonderful. And, you know, for those that kinda listen to this podcast regularly, we talk a lot about, you know, purpose being meaning in action and us kind of going through that journey to to really understand what is meaningful for us and the moments that have shaped meaning in our lives. And immediately, we kinda, like, struck gold here for you, which is that sense of, autonomy, like being let loose, and the the criticality of that in you being able to thrive, and just how easy it is for you to be able to turn around and acknowledge that as being significant for you, not just in that moment. But if I don't feel that sense of autonomy, then, actually, I don't feel like I'm doing well. And and that that's really powerful.
Laurence Halsted [00:15:00]:
And that and that thread just has obviously now continued right to the present day where my life now kind of that autonomy is one of the central pillars of why I feel I'm I'm having such a good time is that I've now designed my life to have maximum autonomy within this the boundaries of being a 40 year old man with 2 kids and a wife and a and a job. But Yeah. It's, it's a thread that I've just I've really made sure is is strong.
James Glover [00:15:27]:
Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. And, you know, the thing that feels really exciting for me in that is that just confirmation of if you're able to reflect upon and understand these moments that have, have have really created inflection points one way or another and what sits behind that experience. When we can see those, understand them, and access them, they're almost timeless because they can influence you regardless of where you are and what context you exist within. It's a sense of control, which again is about and and I'm and I'm thinking about a, a friend of mine and a colleague and a and a peer who goes, well, there is no such thing as control. Like, control is a myth anyway.
James Glover [00:16:10]:
But but that's the power of it. Right? Is you're kind of letting go into something because you feel like you have a sense of something. I don't know if that makes sense to you. I'm kind of just talking a little bit philosophically there.
Laurence Halsted [00:16:22]:
It makes some sense. Where I just jumped to, though, was back to this sense of peace and calm that I get from being in purpose. Because that guy this autonomy that I've created means I think I also told you, I I don't think there's a job, like a full time job in the world that somebody could offer me right now that I would take because there's just no one would be able to offer me the autonomy that I have right now, and that is so central. And that that brings in an incredible amount of peace. Like, I I shouldn't be looking for other opportunities. That kind of that as a foundation, you can see where peace and calm comes from. And it's back to the autonomy that I I did recognize early on, like, is very important to me.
James Glover [00:17:10]:
And again, Lawrence, the you know, there's a flip side to that. You know, some some people might go, alright. Well, that's, you know, that's all well and good, but actually, there would be a colossal amount of anxiety for me if I was given that kind of autonomy in the in the not knowing what may come and, you know, kind of lack of security, etcetera. And I think that's the point that we're trying to make, isn't it? Is do you understand you and what you need? And then when you understand what you need, can you own it? And then when you own it and you make choices and decisions from that place, what does it bring? And that that almost kind of brings us full circle in terms of what does that felt experience enable in you? Well, it's the peace and the calm in that I am just in the right place. So you went to university. You, enjoyed your course, which is, like, number one priority, and then you became a full time athlete. How for lots of people from the outside in, this kind of concept of being a full time athlete, being an elite athlete and kind of competing for a living, it is one of the most purposeful endeavors that you can you can, engage within. That's not necessarily always the experience of those that are doing it.
James Glover [00:18:24]:
So, you know, how did that play out for you?
Laurence Halsted [00:18:27]:
I mean, I felt like the luckiest guy in the world for those those years that I was getting to fence poke people with a stick for a living. It was ridiculous. But and again, I mean, you you you talked about, like, what are the lessons we can draw from from my experience? I mean, one of them is a lesson we can't really draw, but luck luck plays such a huge part in how I've landed where I have. Other than being that we won the bid to host the London Olympics the year before I graduated, and so there were contracts to be professional fencers in the UK for the first time ever from the minute that I graduated. And I had no idea what else I was gonna do. So being a professional fencer was absolutely yeah. Of course, I'm gonna do that. So I had the immense luck to have that opportunity.
Laurence Halsted [00:19:14]:
But then I also that just carried on. Like, the seeing I mean, a a lot of people struggle straight out of uni finding meaningful work that pays and that they enjoy. And I saw a lot of my friends most of my friends struggling with that as most people do and probably even more so now. So the fact that I just got to walk into this lifestyle that I could only have dreamt about, I hadn't really dreamt about because it wasn't on on the cards before then. Just felt so lucky. I was I wasn't earning a whole lot of money. You don't earn a lot of money as a fencer, but earning enough and traveling the world and getting better at this thing I loved, and just everything that went with it was was just where I wanted to be doing what I wanted to do. So, again, that sense of, like, there there's nothing else I would do here.
Laurence Halsted [00:20:06]:
And within that, there would there would there were down times. I mean, it's a tough psychological experience, but at a deeper level, I was I was very content.
James Glover [00:20:19]:
And and so how did that yeah. You you probably can bring a perspective that that many can't just because of the cycles of, of of up and down that come with being an athlete. How you talked there about, you know, there are moments of up and down, but, at a deeper level, a sense of contentment. When you look back now, how do you think that that deeper level of contentment enabled you to deal with the highs and lows of being an athlete in comparison to maybe those that don't experience that deeper level of contentment?
Laurence Halsted [00:20:54]:
Yeah. Well, undoubtedly, it's a it's a major factor in why in so much, actually, in kind of well-being, but also levels of motivation, how how deep the kind of the tough times go. If you don't have to question, am I should I be doing this? Then the kind of the tough times are just that. They're just like they're a bit of a down a low mood, and then you come back and you're you're there again. And I guess I had the one thing that usually really gets athletes to question whether they should be doing it is results. So they they're getting results that they're hoping for, they they progressing. And I had enough kind of feedback from my results that I was was on a good track as well that I was getting better, and I was getting some fun results regularly enough, not super regular. But that allowed me to and combined with the fact that I loved doing it just meant that I never had to question.
Laurence Halsted [00:21:53]:
In all those years, well, the 1st 6 years anyway, I never had to question, like, should I be should I be doing this? And we had this Olympic thing to aim for down the road, so that's always there kind of motivating. But it's it's tough for a lot of athletes when when you're plateauing, especially if you get injured, if you get deselected for anything, and you just wonder, like, then you can start in a few years down the line, you see your friends progressing in their careers and making actual money and start wondering, like, am I just treading water, and am I gonna achieve anything? So I know I saw a lot of people struggle with this. I think I was yeah. I again, I was lucky enough that that I didn't struggle in that way.
James Glover [00:22:37]:
Yeah. And I'm struck by this concept of luck. Like I hear it, I understand it. It wasn't within your gift to, lock down our home Olympic games and then the kind of the the bits that came with that. But there is something about how you then really deeply invested in the opportunity that was there and the the journey that you cultivated around it, which was less about luck, or feels like it was less about luck because of this kind of deeper connection to something that felt important. So what was it about fencing that you really loved? Where did it where did it tap into something significant and important for you?
Laurence Halsted [00:23:17]:
Wow. Well, there's a very obvious way, but just just before I go back into that, the bit that wasn't luck about me getting that professional contract is that I dedicated most of my life up until the age of 21 in this niche sport that no one cared about or thought about or thought was really weird. And I got myself to being one of the best in the country at this weird thing that had no payoff really the whole time. So then I then I was lucky enough that there was an opportunity, but, that was the bit that kind of there wasn't so much about luck that I'd kind of put myself in the right place. Why it was meaningful? I just happened to have 2 parents who were Olympic fencers as well. So that made, my upbringing very sport and Olympics focused, and fencing was all over the place in my house and in my life. Our house is a shrine to fencing the Olympics. There's swords and masks and fencing memorabilia and paintings all over all the worlds.
Laurence Halsted [00:24:21]:
So, so it was no surprise that I got into the sport. And then, I mean, I think Spencer
James Glover [00:24:28]:
is doping, guys. Some did a good day. Having a mother and father of both Olympians and something and, like, creating offspring. That that was planned.
Laurence Halsted [00:24:39]:
Yeah. It worked out it worked out okay. And and then I just fencing is the best sport in the world. It really is the most wonderful complex combination of physical, mental, tactical. It's just never ending kind of complexity and beauty. Actually I was reading an article recently that ballet was designed, was kind of created as an art form soon after fencing was was developed, and they drew a lot on fencing moves. So ballet has kind of learned taken a lot from fencing. So it is actually quite balletic, but it's just, yeah, it's just made.
Laurence Halsted [00:25:22]:
And there's this other wonderful thing about fencing that it's such it's a combat sport. It's one to 1, and it's a real ego trigger. Like, there's so so hard to kind of to it's just so easily drawn into that place of, like, feeling dominated or dominating and, anecdotally that all the sports psychologists who ever kind of get to do go on a trip with us, our fencing team, they just fencing got there, got its claws into them, and they stayed like so many of them stayed for far longer than they ever imagined, because it's so engaging. It's such a wonderful sport for that. And I think it's the ego stuff that really, like, they all say there's something weird and different about fencing.
James Glover [00:26:07]:
It's so beautiful to hear you describe something that you love in that way, and the texture that you kind of bring to it, the the kind of the art and the science of it, the kind of the physicality, the technicality, but, like, the beauty, the balletic I love that word, the balletic nature of it. But also then the brutal honesty. You're poking somebody with a stick. It's it's a combat sport. So the ego element of it is, well, it's undeniable, absolutely undeniable. But the fact that you're also kind of hothoused from an environmental perspective, in that could have gone that could have gone a number of different ways though, you know, there's lots of examples out there of people who had parents who were deeply immersed in, you know, kind of sports and wanted children to follow in the footsteps or do things that they've never done before, and the exact opposite actually happened. What was it about the environment that your parents created that that kind of drew you in rather than pushed you out, do you think?
Laurence Halsted [00:27:14]:
They they just loved their experience in fencing, and they're they're both heavily engaged as kind of volunteers organizing all through their lives. So there was like, that just gave me the sense that this is something fun to do. All of their friends and, like, their, like, their social life are drawn from there. They were very they were very good generally at being kind of supportive but not pushy. But I did at the age of 14, I banned my dad from watching me in competition Okay. Because he was no good, kind of playing a poker face. He just his frustrations or his, like, whatever it was, emotions, he showed in on the side of the piece, we call it. And I I didn't like it, so I said I told him he couldn't watch anymore.
Laurence Halsted [00:28:04]:
So How
James Glover [00:28:04]:
did he how did he respond to that?
Laurence Halsted [00:28:06]:
I mean, he put up with it. I'm sure he'd he'd he'd grumbled a bit, and he didn't he probably didn't like the fact that now he couldn't watch, but that was just how it had to be.
James Glover [00:28:19]:
Yeah. And I'm I'm, I'm immediately struck by 2 things here, Laurence. One is, you know, you talked about the fact that, you felt like this was just something that was fun to do. You know, the fact that you were in this the in this in the in these environments that your parents loved, that they were obviously kind of immersed and deeply passionate about. And actually, the impact of that to you was fun. This is fun. This is cool. I wanna do some more of this.
James Glover [00:28:46]:
But then also that sense of, empowerment to be able to turn around to your dad at 14 and go bugger off. Don't be here. Like, the this is not helpful. And have somebody who can respond and respect that. There there are 2 parts to that for me. 1 is the, the internal element of you that felt able to have that type of conversation at that age with your father, and the response of your father in him acknowledging, hearing, and acting on on what you'd said. So, you know, just wonder that that that felt really impactful to me. How does that feel, me playing that back to you?
Laurence Halsted [00:29:30]:
Yeah. I I think it was less about, well, all the empowerment I felt was also just about how, our relationship and who he was as a as a man. He's not around anymore. He died in 2007. But the fact that there was no question, I was in complete control. Like, this was not about them. And if I asked them to be able to be away, they of course, I get my way because this is my my thing. And I think a lot of parents wouldn't they don't see it like that.
Laurence Halsted [00:29:56]:
So they would they would fight it or they would resist. So it was no question. I I I didn't like him. I didn't benefit from him being there, so I told him I didn't want him there, and that was it. So and that yeah. Less about me and more about him, I think.
James Glover [00:30:12]:
And and, again, there's something really powerful about that sense of autonomy. Right? This is my thing. I make that choice. Then, of course, that's what's gonna happen. Yeah.
Laurence Halsted [00:30:21]:
Yeah. There it was. Probably much younger, but I imagine if you asked my parents, you that autonomy would show up a lot younger as well.
James Glover [00:30:32]:
Yeah. So what we're learning is that we're using the word autonomy, and, actually, what we might be describing is willfulness. Yeah.
Laurence Halsted [00:30:39]:
There's some of that. Yeah.
James Glover [00:30:40]:
Oh, some variant some variant of it. Amazing. Yeah. And so then there was this kind of, element around it. So that was just one piece, this kind of environment, the environment that was created for you to want to really kind of step into and embrace that. But then there was this sense of, you know, you talked about ego in it as well. And that's something that, again, for all of us has an influence, but to greater or lesser levels of kind of awareness and insight. So what what's your kind of journey been with yours, you know, especially in that you're in an environment that actively provoked it?
Laurence Halsted [00:31:16]:
Yeah. And I have been reflecting a lot recently on this on this ego journey. And I I lived most of my adult life in a very ego driven way and certainly most of my sporting career. And then there was a point in 2012 where I think everything shifted and I started on a different path. But I was my ego is provoked to the extent that I kind of my self worth and self identity was very wrapped up in winning and doing well. So I was very hard on myself if I lost crying after every loss as a junior kind of up until the senior ranks, really taking it to heart kind of feeling awful days or even a week after a bad loss. I wasn't very nice to my teammate. I wasn't a very nice teammate.
Laurence Halsted [00:32:10]:
I wasn't a very I didn't like my competitors. I was, like, surly, just not not a nice person in the sporting sense, which is quite different to how I was in the rest of my life. Very kind of just competitive, arrogant style within fencing. And then I had this this experience around one of our very close mutual friends, Katie Warner, that set me on a different path. So that's, this very kind of clear turning point for me where it was out of a out of a time of crisis that I came across a very different way of being. Well, the the the time was was the Olympic year, and after five and a half years odd of preparing for the games, I was well well set. I was gonna be in the team. And then the first training in 2012, I broke my wrist on my sword arm.
Laurence Halsted [00:33:13]:
And I had 4 months of no training, no fencing, and 2 surgeries, and, didn't know if I was gonna get back to any kind of fencing, let alone get selected to the Olympics again. So it was a really dark part dark time, the hardest time of my career for sure. And I just I was full of resentment and self pity and just all the dark stuff. But, gratefully, that was also when I got to to start working with Katie. And as we know about times of great crisis, they often are times of revelation and kind of rejuvenation rejuvenation. And and so the the few months of work that I did with Katie just they were revelatory. We we worked on my values, the kind of person and athlete and teammate that I wanted to be. I kind of held it up as a mirror to how I was day to day.
Laurence Halsted [00:34:13]:
She helped me understand and realize that if you if you lose, you don't have to be devastated. It's not built into the system that you have to be absolutely distraught, which sounded completely crazy to me the first time she she mentioned it. But, yeah, that that just shifted so much of my kind of performance approach, my mindset around all of sport. It was a 180 degrees. So getting into that Olympics, I was in a different place. And then especially the the next Olympic cycle, I was just in a completely different kind of place of mind and on a different route. And that work has just reverberated through everything I've done since then, actually. So it's really a turning point in my life.
James Glover [00:35:06]:
And you talk about, having a sense of connection to purpose from a a young age, and then there's this kind of there's this moment, this kind of acute moment of awakening. What's the what's the purpose journey connection in that moment? So you've you've kind of had a 18 180 from a who do I want to be and how do I want to be? How did it influence the purpose connection line and the journey that you had with with with that?
Laurence Halsted [00:35:41]:
Well, up until that point, I mean, everything had been focusing on on me and how I can just be happy and have a good time. And that's okay, young young man, early twenties. That's that's kind of natural as well, but gap year, university, professional athlete, one of the most selfish things you can get involved in. So I was great. I was totally great with all of that. And I guess this came at a good time because it was coming towards the end of my career where things shouldn't start shouldn't be all about you all the time. And it shifted to well, one thing that awareness of like, that I have a mind and that I can kind of do things that affect it in in good and bad ways. And that opened up, amazingly, because I'd studied psychologists.
Laurence Halsted [00:36:27]:
That was psychology. That was the first time I really got an idea of, like, oh, wow. There's a a mind that we can do stuff with. That's cool. And and then this idea of kind of other people and, the way a way of being with other people that is meaningful and isn't just about me.
James Glover [00:36:54]:
And I love this, you know, the the interaction, the interconnection between self and the world. And I've heard, a previous guest on the on the podcast actually define purpose for themself as that purpose for me is my relationship between myself and the world. And for you to have this moment where, up until that point in time, it had felt purposeful, as in there was significance in it for you. But actually, the growth in meaning, the growth in significance was, it doesn't just have to be about me. It actually probably needs to be about others too. How do I want to be in that? Mhmm. Because I have a choice.
Laurence Halsted [00:37:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I've never questioned, like, how do I wanna be in the world? I've just lived and made friends and had a good time, but also made enemies and not liked a lot of people and, like, never questioned, like, should this could this be different? And then that work with Katie and I might value that, who do I wanna be as a teammate? Do I wanna be one that some people really dislike and other people really like? Or one that's a a leader that everyone looks up to and respects. Yeah. Far rather be like that, so let's go after that. And that's, yeah, that's that's held. That that kind of values path is just has held me in a so so much of a better place, but that was, yeah, that was the beginning.
James Glover [00:38:19]:
So talk to us about the kind of the transition out of that moment then. So not that moment specifically in terms of the injury and then kind of performance, but being an athlete. Because, again, one of the things that is universally true for for those that are elite performers is that they have to find something else to do because there's still a lot of life to live once once sport is finished. So what what's that journey where's that journey taken you, and and how has purpose played a role in that?
Laurence Halsted [00:38:49]:
So, again, I got very lucky. There were opportunities that arose. I was in Denmark. By then, I so I live in Copenhagen in Denmark, and I moved there after the the London games. Moved here. I've met my wife, and I've moved to to to be with her. And then after the Rio Olympics, I when I retired, there was an the the the Danish Fencing Federation decided to hire a performance director for the first time ever. And I just happened to be the most experienced person for that job in the entire country.
Laurence Halsted [00:39:23]:
So, again, it's like, well, I didn't have anything else in mind, so I'll take that. And it turned out to be just an an amazing job for me. Just absolutely loved that role. It was I couldn't have thought of anything better to do. It's just, yeah, it's suited me down to the ground, and it was within this safety bubble of fencing. Still, the world I knew so well, I was still the expert. So often an athletes have to go to the kind of the bottom of the the hierarchy in some other sphere, which feels really difficult. But I could just stay at the kind of this expert level of, like, where I was just in a different role, a leadership role rather than as an athlete.
Laurence Halsted [00:40:02]:
But I also joined the Triathlete project, this wonderful fledgling charity at the time. We were all volunteers, so I was a volunteer for them, created and started this mentoring program for athletes within the charity, and had those two things running side by side for the next 5 years, and they just fitted in so nicely together. They supported each other. I got I had this amazing balance of a job that paid well enough and I liked, and I was I was learning a lot. It was my first leadership role. And this charity work that was just incredibly meaningful and very freeing and meeting lots of different people. So all the elements of that tie into my values and what I get out of life and a lot of autonomy, just adding that in, just meant that I kind of slipped into another kind of path full of feeding full of purpose. And, again, the kind of the luck of the draw that this was a performance director role, but in such a small federation that I was alone in the kind of the talent elite space.
Laurence Halsted [00:41:12]:
I had total autonomy. They'd never had this job before. I created all of the stuff that I was gonna do. I told them what my job was gonna be. I was created it as I went. So that autonomy was still incredibly kind of heightened when almost any other federation, you'd be you'd be beholden to a lot more kind of rigidity or kind of this is how we always do it. This is what happened before. Yeah.
Laurence Halsted [00:41:40]:
So a very, again, I feel I feel lucky to have found it. There were things that I did to to put me in a in a good position to take those opportunities, but I still needed them to to come up at the right time.
James Glover [00:41:54]:
Yeah. I I don't know what it is about the about you talking about luck. There's a part of it that feels to me that sounds like gratitude. Sounds like, wow. I recognize the opportunities that have been presented here, and, how right they have been for me at the right point of time. And I feel deeply appreciative and grateful for that. So there's a part of me when you use the word luck, I feel that. There's another part of it which is, it almost feels like there is a, I don't even know what the right word is.
James Glover [00:42:39]:
Like, it feels like you've you've kind of you've you've pushed responsibility or you've pushed kind of, ownership of something to something else. Like, I was I was just lucky. There was nothing else in there. I was just lucky. And that that's kind of creating a bit of tension for me because I'm like, oh, I'm not sure I believe that actually as we're as we're talking through this conversation. Yes. I hear the gratefulness and that and that that these things have created something for you that if they weren't there that you couldn't have had. But also there is something about your understanding of yourself and the universe aligning some stuff.
James Glover [00:43:21]:
And that's gonna make me sound so woo in this moment. It's unbelievable. But, I'm I'm not a manifester, but I listen to the principle and the philosophy behind that and how intention can create opportunity and action, and the interconnectivity of things. And I guess I'm just sharing something that is is occurring in me as you're using that word look. And I'd love to get a sense from you whether or not I'm deeply overcomplicating something that's massively simple or whether or not there's just something more in there than than you're giving yourself opportunity to hold.
Laurence Halsted [00:44:03]:
I let me ramp up the tension more. I think I I take even less credit for what's been going on for me than than you're suggesting right there. It's not just luck, but it's everything that I've been doing, I take very little credit for.
James Glover [00:44:17]:
Right. Okay.
Laurence Halsted [00:44:18]:
And not in a humble way. It's in a very logical way. So I'm far more woo woo than you are, actually. So you're scraping the barrel for me of what the way we could do it. Yeah. But But from a I mean, I've we we don't choose our genes. We don't choose our upbringing. Our development and so much of who we are and how we respond to the world is set by the age of 7 by those two things.
Laurence Halsted [00:44:44]:
And then, yeah, there's some philosophy around free will that I'm interested in that I I also don't I don't think we have much in the way of free will than the way we recognize it. I I'm also not a manifestor in that sense, but following I think you can follow the signs and you can you can be awake to intuit the kind of where the the universe has opportunities for you, or you can be closed off to them. And I I I imagine I've been quite awake to them because of just looking back. It's gone pretty well. But, yeah, I would take even less responsibility than than you're even suggesting for for where I have. It's a very impersonal thing. I'm very glad, and it's all great. It's all gratitude.
Laurence Halsted [00:45:29]:
I'm very glad that I've been chosen for this role in the world, but I don't think it was my doing.
James Glover [00:45:36]:
Yeah. Amazing. Thank you for embracing my, obvious naivety to the wooidness, and, and for I I and I guess for just taking it up a level, in in being able to play back in a far more clear and articulate way what that experience looks and feels like. It just felt like there was something in me in you there when you're using that word that I didn't understand and that was there was more to. So I appreciate you being able to to kinda share with that. So where to? Where in the future, Lawrence? Where like, you know, just taking that conversation into the next step, how is how is purpose guiding you into the unknown? How is this sense of a feeling and kind of intuition and embodied embodied understanding of meaning guiding you going forward? What do you think is on the horizon?
Laurence Halsted [00:46:30]:
Hopefully, a lot of the same. This this right here, right now, much of the same of this. Well, I mean, I had a recent another recent more recent experience of kind of the feeling of this because, in end of 2021, I decided to leave this role in the federation, full time job, and join TAP, which was a just because we'd grown enough, I could get paid to do the same role I was doing, but it was less money and part time and still very insecure. But there was there was no it was no decision. There was lit there was literally no decision to make. It was just a, this is where I have to go now. And that also very peace very peaceful, very calm. I had to figure out how to make enough money on the side of that to keep up a family.
Laurence Halsted [00:47:22]:
So there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of but no doubt and no, concerns maybe. Sure. But no anxiety. No doubt. And so I guess I've had a on a good track record of just following that feeling of where where should I be. And it's that feeling right now is is is saying what I just told you. Just don't work the boat. You're in you're doing fine.
Laurence Halsted [00:47:49]:
Just follow follow whatever path this is. It's not to say I mean, it can sound very kind of laid back and, like, just not very ambitious, But I feel incredibly ambitious on behalf of the charity, on the stuff the other stuff I'm doing. I've just, started working with a new business partner here in Denmark because I know I I have no network really in kind of into the biz into business, into other places in in Danish society. So that came out of a real kind of following the universe signals. So there's things always happening. Lots of things happening. But just a sense of, like, this will be fine.
James Glover [00:48:30]:
Yeah. And what I really love as being kind of a golden thread in this conversation here is that, you you've described on a in a couple of ways the difference between the kind of the momentary ups and downs versus the kind of the consistency of an intuitive sense of alignment. And it feels like you're describing that same thing again now, which is it's not that my life is devoid of of, like, anxiety or concerns. I meant so is the word you used, I think, was concern. Like, what but there is an underlying sense of peace and calm that enables you to manage that level of concern and go into the unknown where there may be uncertainty. In the same way that as an athlete, there were moments of triumph and there were moments of despair, but, yeah, actually, the kind of the real commitment to the cause was this deeper sense of this is the right thing for me to be doing right now because it feels like it is the right thing for me to be doing right now. And in the same way that you feel, like this is the right moment, and I'm doing the right thing, so please more of the same. And what what what power and peace there is in being able to acknowledge that and be able to look back at the track record, that that that that those choices and decisions have created for you.
Laurence Halsted [00:50:03]:
Power and peace is a nice way to put it because I I just turned 40 a couple of weeks ago, and nice way to reflect on decades past and the decade to come. And I look forward with a very strong sense of, like, this is gonna be a decade of power and peace. Like, there's there's a lot in place now where I can I can do some really good stuff, and I can do it with a with a real foundation of of peace and, like, this is this is where I should be in doing what I should be doing? So nicely put. Thanks for that. Well, maybe mantra.
James Glover [00:50:38]:
Yeah. Maybe that's where we, where where we pause this conversation here and just kind of invite those that are listening really to consider what does power and peace really look like for them. I know that's where I'm gonna be spending the afternoon and and truly being able to understand what is it that that I have a sense of influence and deep connection to and that creates that level of peace and calm in where I'm at right now and what I have and what the future may bring. So, yeah, let's invite everybody else to do a mindful departure and just consider those, those two things. Thank you so much, Dorrance, for for for being on the excitable soul podcast and and being in this conversation. It's been mega.
Laurence Halsted [00:51:20]:
Yeah. What a pleasure, James. More to come, I hope.
James Glover [00:51:24]:
Yeah. Big time. Alrighty. Take care. Massive thank you for taking the time to listen to the excitable soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding, and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs at the excitable soul dot com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.