Episode #14: Gary Steeples
Purpose Beyond Status: Finding Meaningful Living and Fulfilment
In this latest podcast episode, I engage in a thought-provoking conversation with guest Gary Steeples, diving deep into the emotive elements and humility that define our purpose and impact on the world.
Listen in as Gary Steeples shares his mission to create joy and make a meaningful impact, drawing from his personal experiences and a desire to see opportunities for others. Together we explore the significance of intentional communication, the power of human interaction, and the importance of valuing relationships in both personal and professional contexts.
In this episode, Gary reflects on his personal journey of rediscovering his sense of purpose, prioritising it over status and money, and embracing vulnerability to foster personal growth. He shares insights on taking leaps of faith, overcoming self-doubt, and finding success by doing what he loves and is passionate about.
From challenging moments to moments of excitement and courage, this conversation delves into the transformative power of introspection, intention, and embracing the unknown.
Join us as we explore the themes of purpose, growth, and the pursuit of true fulfilment.
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Read the transcript here
James Glover [00:00:09]:
Alrighty. Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find Meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique Sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host, James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.
James Glover [00:00:44]:
So let's get going, shall we? Hey, everybody. Today's guest is Gary Steeples, Self confessed communication skills nerd. He describes himself as a failed sports scientist who fell out of university into a well paying job with a Cool company, Carr. His early professional life focused on a variety of commercial roles in pharmaceutical and biotech companies where he experienced firsthand the power of effective communication and the harm done by dysfunctional communication. In 2019, following a personal Jerry Maguire moment of clarity, he founded his own small consultancy. With the sole purpose of helping people have more successful interactions with their fellow humans. For the last 8 years, he has been coaching junior hockey players, Having had a deep passion for the sport and understanding the powerful role that it can play in the development of young people, This conversation took an unexpected twist, which Gary and I both wanted to make sure that you all are part of. Enjoy.
James Glover [00:01:52]:
Gary, welcome to the excitable soul podcast. Like, amazing, mate. Absolutely amazing to have you here, and Thank you so much for agreeing to to come and have a conversation with me. How are you feeling today?
Gary Steeples [00:02:06]:
Well, It's my absolute pleasure to be here. It's always a pleasure to chat with you. I'm excited, slightly anxious, and I know we're gonna have to keep a lid on What could turn into an echo chamber of positivity today, judging by our our normal interactions? But, no, it's it's great. I'm really looking forward to it.
James Glover [00:02:25]:
Yeah. I think our listeners should beware of the kind of the sonic boom of energy that may take place Yeah. Actually during this conversation. Like, it's It's kind of overwhelming for our friends and family when we're in the same place at the same time. So let's just hope that the platform that we're recording on can, can can take it too. Definitely. So hopefully by now, you know, kind of our listeners and our guests are starting to get a sense of of who we are and and kinda how we operate on this podcast, where we're really interested in people telling their stories of of purpose, and that is to say Where they find meaning and they find connection in their lives, and what's the kind of the unique contribution they're trying to bring to the world. And in order to be able to do that, we ask Some big questions, like some haymakers always.
James Glover [00:03:13]:
And and often the the kind of the start point in our journey is Just to ask people to to kind of reflect back on the experiences and the moments that have shaped who they are because, ultimately, purpose is within us. A kind of journey of discovery rather than one of invention. And so, you know, for you, Gary, what are some of the the key moments you think when you look back over Over your journey to date that have really shaped who you are.
Gary Steeples [00:03:38]:
Wow. We're starting out big, aren't we? Okay. There have been moments, mostly people actually, that I have met in my life that have Made me take a serious introspective look at me. And in those moments, I I've, I found some things that were uncomfortable, but ultimately revealing. I think my early years I think most of us could probably say this. My early years, my young years were We're mostly about just trying to decide who am I, what do I like doing, and just interacting with the world in a way that was, kind of unfiltered really. You know, I know we met very young. We met, probably I think I was 13.
Gary Steeples [00:04:29]:
You were maybe 11, I'm guessing, down at the beach in the hockey club. And I think at that age, we you're just who you are. Right? You you're going through life Just doing what you do, being who you are. And, and I got to a point in my late Teens went to university, and I and I realized things just weren't really clicking for me. I'd I'd found myself at university doing a sports science degree. I I discovered I did not have a love of learning, at that point. That was something that came to much later in life. And I, I didn't know what was going to happen.
Gary Steeples [00:05:05]:
I didn't know where I was going to go and what the future held for me. I ended up falling into a a job In the pharmaceutical industry. So I fell out of university, just about scraped my sports science degree, and fell into a job, working as a, a pharmaceutical salesperson, which had lots of appeal because it came with with money and status. You know, I fell out of of university into a company BMW. And at 21, 22 years old, you think you're you're thinking the man.
James Glover [00:05:37]:
That's it. You've made it. Done. Right?
Gary Steeples [00:05:40]:
Yeah. And, and I thought this is it. These are the important things in life is to make some money and have some status and and make your mark on the world. And then it didn't take an awfully long time for me to realize that I maybe wasn't making the dent in the universe that I wanted to. And, and that's when I really started thinking hard about, well, is is this for me? Is this really what I was meant to be doing with my life?
James Glover [00:06:04]:
What was what what were some of the things that you started to notice and pay attention to? Because I love that language. I'm not making the dent in the world that I want to. That, You know, there's there's such expression in the words that you're even choosing there, which is a sense of, I'm capable of more. I want To be able to do more, and it's not just about me, it's about the world. So what what were some of the things that you were experiencing and paying attention to that started to provoke you in that? What does what does the Gary shaped dent look like in the world?
Gary Steeples [00:06:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't know what that dent needed to look like, but I just knew I wasn't making one at Paul. And and I I noticed because, I don't know if, you know, for our listeners, the role of a pharmaceutical salesperson is to go and see physicians. You know? You go and see them and talk about a particular medication. You tell them all about the The details of that medication, the advantages, and the features, what it could mean for patients, all the clinical data, in the hope that they will then Use that medication to help their patients. And I just got a sense in those interactions that nothing was really changing. They were being very nice to me, and I was having some very nice chats.
James Glover [00:07:15]:
Yeah.
Gary Steeples [00:07:16]:
But it wasn't really affecting the way that they were practicing medicine. So it sounds very much like I I I was bit being, relatively ineffective, promising to the salesperson. And I think probably at times that that is absolutely true. It just wasn't for me making it have enough of a positive effect on, on the lives of other people.
James Glover [00:07:42]:
Why why in that in those moments, in those interactions, did did you feel like it was about the impact on the lives of other people that was important.
Gary Steeples [00:07:53]:
Well, I see you you talking to physicians about, About sick people, you know, people with diseases and conditions that have a a significant limiting effect on their life and sometimes result, of course, in death as well. And and Those medications should be, be able to help those people. And, yeah, I I just got a sense that That I wasn't able to make a big enough effect on ultimately the lives of those people through Chatter Two Physicians. They were making their own minds up, in what they were doing, probably not based on what I was telling them. And I remember one time I went to see a, a physician, and I was telling him all about this wonderful, CD ROM. You remember CD ROMs? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Gary Steeples [00:08:37]:
Yeah. So you'd be in in your computer, and it had these video demonstrations of, how to do joint injection, which is for, you know, A way to treat patients with arthritis that can help to relieve the symptoms of pain they have and and inflammation in their joints. And it was a, a tutorial DVD. And, I said, there you go, doctor. There's this DVD ROM. And, he said, oh, yeah. Very good. And he reached into his drawer in his desk, And he took out, a copy of the Argos catalog, put it on the desk, slid it over to me, And there was a page marked in there with a a post it note with a, Sanyo CD player, 69.99.
Gary Steeples [00:09:22]:
It's all no. No. No. It's it goes in your, your computer CD drive. He says, yeah, but Sanyo CD player, 69.99. I said, oh, no. So no. We we we can't sponsor things like that for your for your practice.
Gary Steeples [00:09:37]:
And I and I I've got a sense at that moment. It was a real moment of clarity for me that, Many physicians did not see the relationship that I had with them as a an informative, educational, Helpful relationship. This was something else right here, and and that and that's not what the pharmaceutical industry do. And that's certainly not what I wanted to do. And I thought, wow. Is that all I am? I I'm I'm more than this. I need to have a a really Good think about what I want to do now or the rest of my life.
James Glover [00:10:12]:
Because there's the you know, and the I'm making an assumption here, and I just wanna kinda check this with you, but, like, that interaction isn't just speaking about What you do, it's not just challenging and creating tension in what you do. It's creating challenge and tension in who you are as well. So, You know, when you're looking across the the desk at somebody who is a medical professional and you're you're believing you're having a certain type of interaction and you're valuing that that interaction in a certain way, and they whip out an August catalog, and it just changes the value exchange completely, doesn't it? It's an entirely different dynamic that's created. And you I can imagine the the the challenge to your values in that moment of hold on a second. I'm here with the intent of being able to help people, and you're here with the intent of being able to get some free stuff.
Gary Steeples [00:10:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. And and and that is not the relationship. It never intended to be that, and I was a huge values breach for me. And, yeah, it got me thinking more carefully at that point. It was one of those moments. It was the Joe Maguire moment. It it was the it was the conference on Miami.
Gary Steeples [00:11:15]:
It was the maybe I don't like my place in the world. Am I just another shark in a suit? I need to think more carefully about this. And it started a an introspective process that led me somewhere else.
James Glover [00:11:29]:
Yeah. And, you know what? I love the fact that you've just kind of drawn attention to Gerard Maguire. 1st movie quote of the, of the conversation today, and I know there'll be many. But the fact that, you know, if you just think about that moment for him where, you know, you you he describes, but you visually see him in this kind of almost deep sweat of, like, anxiety because it's an existential crisis in its own right of I've been doing this, and I've been doing this successfully. And is it right? What does that look like? And so, you know, right at the beginning when when I asked you the moments that have really shaped who you are and you talked to about there are people that have created a level of Introspection and reflection that was dis that was uncomfortable. I guess what you're sharing here is is the first provocation of that, the first trigger of that for you. Well, I'm not saying necessarily first in terms of timeline, but a really significant one in in, in that moment. What did you do with it, Gary? Like, what What did that trigger lead to? What does the what what is the introspective process for you? Because if I'm a listener, I'm going, yeah.
James Glover [00:12:30]:
I've kinda felt some of that stuff, but then how do you take How do you take that experience and turn it into something that then becomes different?
Gary Steeples [00:12:38]:
Yeah. I was very fortunate in, in that role that I I a coach and as a a young man, young professional, 21, 22 years old, to have somebody Coaching you provided by the company is rare. Even now, you know, 20 years later, that is rare in an organization. Coaching kind of resource is normally reserved for those people in the upper echelons of an organization. Although, no, it it has and it's still changing, for the good. And I was fortunate enough to be coached by a man called Mike Enright. This guy had been in, the pharmaceutical industry, nearly all of his career, he'd been the top guy at Boots. He was a sales rep when they launched Ibuprofen.
Gary Steeples [00:13:24]:
Okay? That's how long ago it was when he was a sales rep, but he was yeah. I know. Lived in Nottingham. So he's a local guy, and he had been the sales director For boots nationally in the UK, so, you know, really see senior guy. But he had found his way later in life towards the end of his career, towards being a, a performance coach. And he performance coached me, and I told him that story. And I shared with him my Discomfort and my this process of introspection I was going through, and that clearly I wasn't being Dev, and that my relationship was being perceived with these health health care professionals as not being valuable enough In his own right. And he, he coached me.
Gary Steeples [00:14:11]:
And I went through this brilliant process of understanding More about my responsibility for what that relationship with my customers, with health care professionals looked like. I had a huge role to play in how it it had ended up in that state. And he asked Some amazing questions. Right? Like, the best coaches do. And he listened intently. And, yeah, he facilitated me going through that that change.
James Glover [00:14:46]:
And so, and I'm, again, I'm I'm kind of Curious because there's some, I think really important language you're using here, which was being valuable enough. Like, I wasn't valuable enough. I didn't believe I was valuable enough. But also this kind of sense of responsibility for that ending up, The relationship ending up where it did. How do you understand You know, your sense of value now and maybe this this kind of isn't a sequential timeline conversation. You know? Kind of feel free to to dance around and and kind of and and connect the dots in different ways. But, yeah, how do you understand what what being valuable really means to you now?
Gary Steeples [00:15:33]:
It it does directly link to that moment, to that time. And and For me, now it is very clear. So 15, 20 years later. And it's my value to the world to me is Crystal clear. It's about helping people to have better, more effective, more satisfying, successful interactions with other human beings. The world is super short on that. I think it is in more need of more of that Than it has ever been before. And so there's a great need for it.
Gary Steeples [00:16:09]:
And it turns out I'm actually quite good at it as well. And so that's always a winner, right? And it cut and it came from a, a personal journey of discovery. And so I've walked the path, towards understanding how to do that. And I and I I now spend my time and my energy helping other people to do that too. And it's just the best thing in the world.
James Glover [00:16:37]:
So talk to us about the journey of discovery, Gary. Like, what what what was that? What was the path?
Gary Steeples [00:16:44]:
Well, so, Mike. Mike, the guy I was telling you about, my coach, he he used to do this brilliant thing where he'd bring a banana with him on our coaching days. K. And, he'd always bring a single banana, and he would use it as a coaching tool. K. Bear with me. Right. Right.
James Glover [00:17:06]:
Okay. I'm in. I'm in. Whatever it is, I'm in.
Gary Steeples [00:17:10]:
Pause for effect, build attention. So so the reason it was a banana, I found out later, many years later, is because he was a war baby. And he said, when he was growing up in London, he said that we couldn't get bananas. You couldn't get bananas in the years following the war Because of rationing. So he says whenever I can get hold of a banana tea, I always have a banana. So he always full of stories. Amazing. But he used to use his banana.
Gary Steeples [00:17:36]:
He'd he'd say, right, Gary. Let's have a conversation about what just happened in that conversation with, with a health care professional. And he asked a question, and then he'd let me answer. And as he was doing it, he'd be slowly peeling the banana, and he'd let me answer. And then as I finished my answer, he would take a bite to the banana so that that was my cue To know that he was still not going to talk. And there'll be this uncomfortable silence while he Finish his mouthful banana, and I, of course, would crack first, and I would keep talking. And all the stuff That I said after he took the bite of banana was all the great stuff. It was the real stuff behind the initial answer.
Gary Steeples [00:18:24]:
Yeah. And it was genius. I didn't understand it until years later. And then at the end of the day, he he he good. Right? Love that.
James Glover [00:18:34]:
I mean, there's definitely an awkwardness in it, for sure. I thought you were about to describe a bit of a me too moment. I was gonna say, you're okay, But the but the, but the simplicity of that, like, the The you know, you talk about the significance of, of human interaction and the the kind of the place that you Want to make a contribution in the world and how you do that. And in one simple story, you are kind of unpicking so many different dynamics in human connection. It's unreal, isn't it? Like, there's a lens there's a sense of intrigue in why is this guy brought a piece of fruit to this conversation? Does he know is it is this serious or not? And then you share what you think is the kind of the right thing to reply, and you realize in that moment, heart drop, stomach churn moment, oh, I have to talk more. I have to say more. There needs to be more here. It's still on me.
James Glover [00:19:29]:
What does that look like? And, actually, this guy's just really enjoying a banana in the moment, and you struggle. And, actually, it's in the kind of the tension, it's in the discomfort that you then start to come to the the realizations that are actually useful and powerful for you.
Gary Steeples [00:19:46]:
Yeah. 100%. And there were 2 things there for me. The first thing is this guy was a master communicator. That this was intentional. It was deliberate. It was skilled, and he was the 1st person I had ever met where I I had an appreciation of the power of Skilled intentional communication and what that could do for other people. So first, role model in that respect.
Gary Steeples [00:20:08]:
And secondly, because of that level of skill, it helped me to understand me better. So I was experiencing myself a personal journey discovery that, that that helped me to become not just a better salesperson By incremental steps, which is another thing you introduced me to, but also just to become a better person. I liked the me that I was becoming Through being more self aware, by being more intentional about the way I behaved, thinking carefully about the effect that was having on other people. And that in turn gave me a greater sense of control because the world's a scary place. Right? All these things happen. And and often it can feel like we're out of control, and we're At the mercy of fate. And now how is it that that person is so successful and this person gets that thing and I don't get it? When we really start to look closely, he helped me to see that I have more control over that than maybe I had thought. If I just pay attention to it, It's not a long way from where I am to where I might like to be.
James Glover [00:21:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I love this. There are just kind of multiple things playing out here for me, and I can't kind of get it out of my head yet the way that you were just really eloquently able to describe Kinda a sense of purpose here. This is, you know, this, this desire to increase the quality of human interaction, that isn't about the role that you play in your life As a professional person, it wasn't then and it's not now because it's transcended the role that you played. You're not a salesperson anymore. You successfully Run and own your own business. So it's deeper than that.
James Glover [00:21:46]:
It's beyond that. And it's also not defined by other roles that you play in your life in terms of parent and partner. You can express that sense of purpose through both of those things. But this idea that you were able to turn around and go, Okay. I have a sense of who I can become here and it's actually within my gift and it's not as far away as I think it might be Because it is within my gift to be able to go after it. What the, the, the bit that I'm not sure that we've answered yet, and I kind of wanna Stay with it is this kind of idea of being valuable enough and that kind of idea and and sense of self worth element because, or the fact that you were able to go from immediately me asking you that question to, boom, sense of, like, there's a sense of purpose here, How does that help you now define your sense of self worth? Where what does that look like for you now?
Gary Steeples [00:22:47]:
I lost my way for a while. Let me tell you how I ended up where I am now. I'll answer that question by telling you a little more about the journey. I lost my way for a while with that sense of purpose. I found it. And then I walked away from it. And I went off to do other things. Other things that involved status and money and And and all those things that I should have known were not really gonna help me make my dent in the universe.
Gary Steeples [00:23:10]:
But I think that's true for so many people. But it was a great learning experience for me. But but it helped me to re refocus on what really matters to me And what my sense of purpose is. Sometimes getting lost is the best way to get found. And and that that was so true for me. And I found my way back to it a few years ago. And, I'm now able to say no to things. It's one of the greatest gifts I have from have been clear on my purpose is being comfortable and confident to say, Thank you, but no.
Gary Steeples [00:23:49]:
Had opportunity last year to take on a massive new client with my business, Which would have been, I mean, a game changer for the business. Huge contract, running a global training for a big, big company. And my business partner and I, we turned it down because we had a a really good conversation about, well, does this this is what we're all about. It is who we are. This is what we do and what we are we being true to ourselves here, or are we chasing the status and the money? And it was the latter. And we said, thank you, but no. It's it's not for us. And what that does is being able to say no creates that That time, it creates a space.
Gary Steeples [00:24:32]:
It creates a surplus of energy to be able to direct into the things that really matter to us. So we stayed small, but we stayed happy and we've stayed true to our purpose. And it's just I'm so glad we we said no to it. We'd be in a very different place right now. I don't know if that answers your question or not, but it's it's certainly been an important reminder for the audience.
James Glover [00:24:55]:
I think there's a yes. And In in there, Gary, actually, I think that, the the bit that's really kind of captured my attention and that I'm curious about was They're kind of the test the the tension and the wrestle within you. So fell out of university into a job. Beamer and money and status. Let's rock and roll. Right. Okay. This isn't maybe quite what I want in my life, and maybe there's some stuff that's missing here, help.
James Glover [00:25:24]:
There's some help in there that started to be able to to kind of shape a different perspective view and a different level of insight for you, and it was starting to be able to help you say, actually, well, what is the The kind of the unique contribution that I'm trying to bring to the world and the impact that I want that contribution to have. But then you consciously walked away from it Again, you know, and saying it, there was definitely some, there was a draw to the money and the status thing again. And, and I was a bit lost. As a bit in the wilderness. And actually right now I can sit here from a position of pride and be able to say that was tested again. And I was able to make a different choice, and I'm able to feel differently about who I am and who this organization is because I made a different choice This time, I was able to say no. What, what was it in that moment of kind of getting lost that that has helped you find that sense of clarity around saying no. And How do you stand behind saying no now when, you know, there is a tension? There is
Gary Steeples [00:26:32]:
a draw there. It felt like a mistake when I got lost, When I moved from a a role in my career that was satisfying all of those wonderful things that really Fitted beautifully with my purpose. I moved into a more commercial role, and it was the environment I was I was working, living in was one that rewarded and recognized status within an organization. And I thought, oh, I need some more of that. And I think that that was a it was a, In retrospect, that's a real warning sign for me now. If I start to feel myself being being affected by and my decision making affected by the external environment. It's a warning for me. It's like, okay.
Gary Steeples [00:27:16]:
Ah, that's interesting. What how does that fit with with the insight stuff? Identity values, all those from things that really matter to me. Back then, not equipped to be able to notice that. I had kids though. I say, I, we. Georgie and I had kids. We Isabelle came along, and, I always knew I always knew I was to be a parent. I always knew I would enjoy it and it would be important to me.
Gary Steeples [00:27:43]:
And I took a decision and I, you know, I was in a A marketing role, very high pressured. It's very important within the organization. And I I made a request to work a 4 day week, Every other week, I use all my annual leave to to work a 4 day week so I could spend time with my daughter when she was a baby. And it was frowned upon. The organization let it happen, but it was, it wasn't met with with with open arms. But I loved it so much, And it I would never ever take it back. And it reminded me What my values were, it reminded me about the joy of doing things that really matter to you. And that one day every fortnight was So much more satisfying than the the kind of the the other days when I was doing the other stuff.
Gary Steeples [00:28:37]:
I thought there's just there's more there's more to life here. There's more to life than this chasing the this, you know, money and status. And, again, it was a bit of a wake up call for me. And, I I know that Georgie went my wife went through a similar experience at a similar time. And I know these life events can often do that for people. And it's a time to pause and breathe and and just have their introspective look. What what need in you was the the kind
James Glover [00:29:05]:
of the status thing satisfying, do you think?
Gary Steeples [00:29:16]:
Oh, it has to go back to parents. Right? It always goes back to mom and dad.
James Glover [00:29:20]:
Right? I'm a parent straight away. Yep.
Gary Steeples [00:29:24]:
So on a daily basis, you know, we mess up our kids in innumerable ways. That's that's what we do as parents. Right? And and my and my parents did the same for me. Was the gift they gave me. I think that the world though, actually, aside from Paris, the world, the world, overtly recognizes Status. And there's so much of it these days. People are judged on on on how much wealth they accumulate and what status they have in the world. You If you ask most people, how successful they are, they will reply with telling you what they do for a job or what role they hold within organization and how much money they have and where their 2nd home is on the Costa del Sol.
Gary Steeples [00:30:09]:
Right? Financial terms, status terms. And I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's a very one dimensional way of looking at success. Success to whom? Oh, oh, they're very successful. Successful how? As according to their goals? Great. I'm happy for them. But that's not my success. My success looks very different. And, so, yeah, there there are many, many different ways of looking at what success is and that Having children reminded me that there are more important ways to be successful than the money and the status And, far more meaningful for me personally.
James Glover [00:30:51]:
Yeah. And I love and I love that shift, Gary. You know, we talk about going from kind of uncovering a sense purpose into really un really understanding it. And there are a couple of things in what you're sharing there that that kinda land strongly with me. The first is is the the kind of the tension and the wrestle between status and kind of fulfillment and, and the fact that you fell off the wagon, which is a totally human experience. But, Actually, the fall what what did the fall off the wagon enable? Well, it enabled you to realize that when I feel attention, when I feel a pull, that's a warning sign. I need to be paying attention to different information than I was paying attention to before. And so that's now become a really, powerful weapon in your armory of of awareness to go, okay.
James Glover [00:31:34]:
I'm feeling some stuff, and I acknowledge and recognize this feeling and where it's coming from. And there are some different criteria I set about the decisions that I'm making, which come from the inside out. So what does success really mean and look Like, now I had this idea that was maybe formulated by a number of different influences, whether they were family influences, whether they're societal influences. But now, actually, the the thing that influences success and how I define it comes from the inside out. There are things that you use that word fulfillment. Like, that's a really easy word to say out loud, and it's a really difficult journey to find a connection to. But, you know, you made a hard choice. I'm gonna do something in this organization that, a, makes me an outlier, which is always painful, Could have an impact on how I'm seen and therefore how I progress.
James Glover [00:32:23]:
Oh, status could get chopped down here. But I really wanna do this, and it's really important to me. And lo and behold, you stand, you know, you stand behind that, and it gives you, a sense of something that the other thing could never have achieved. And, oh, and now it becomes well, that's that's now the bar, not the other thing.
Gary Steeples [00:32:43]:
And that that word you use or repeated back was attention as well. And then that's something I've learned over the years. It has really made a difference to me. It's about what you pay attention to. The the and because the world just competes for our attention these days. I mean, I I know I use the example of social media just because it is one of the greatest sources of, of, that tries to grab our attention. And if we just pay attention to what the world is trying to direct us towards we miss so much. And I'm more intentional now about what I pay attention to because we know when we pay attention to something, it grows in importance.
Gary Steeples [00:33:22]:
And when it grows in importance, it becomes causal, and you get these awkward spirals and wonderful things happen. And, yeah, All that good stuff that happens when you're more intentional.
James Glover [00:33:32]:
And I think that kind of seamlessly moves us into this the the kind of the 3rd step here in the journey really around, kind of almost un being able to unleash a sense of purpose. And, for me, the The kind of the significance of this. And I and I was and I was challenged actually by by one of the the other guests on the on this podcast about, what those words, what that language kinda conjured in them, and there there was kind of almost a bit of a like an immune reaction, And it was brilliant because it made me go, well, what am I what do I mean when I talk about a leap of faith? What am I really talking about? And it's about the kind of the moments of excitement and courage. There's, like, there's energy behind something. It feels like there's unknown, but there's possibility that sits sits within it. And I and I'm wondering I'm wondering where those moments have come from for you and or, you know, where you can see them on the horizon.
Gary Steeples [00:34:28]:
Okay. Well, a bit a big leap of faith for me was 5 years ago, was starting my own business. You've already alluded to it. I was, at the time working for, a global trading agency, doing capability development programs For big companies, mostly pharmaceutical companies, and it was a mixture of things, mixture of, of communication skills and, kind of Marketing skills and and lots of other things, leadership things. There were certain things that I absolutely loved to do, And I was really good at them. And there were other things not quite so much. And I found myself being pulled more and more towards the things I didn't enjoy so much maybe weren't my sweet spot. And I decided it was time to to go and give it a go on my own, start my own Small consultancy doing the things that were on my sweet spot.
Gary Steeples [00:35:21]:
And I had huge amounts of imposter syndrome. So am I good enough? Am I credible enough? And one of the things that I learned was that, When you do things that you're really passionate about and that you know Something about a value where you can share some ideas that can really help people. You do not have to be As good as you think you need to be to be successful and to have to make a dent in the universe. And, I'm very fortunate that my clients have met me with nothing but, Positivity and support because I've managed to bring value, and it's because I've managed to find the thing that I love to do. I care about deeply. I've got some capability around it. I can share some ideas that make a difference for people. And and I would say to anybody He was thinking about making a leap of faith.
Gary Steeples [00:36:25]:
You're already better than you think you are. If it true if it's all truly lined up for you, If you're doing things, if you're gonna behave in ways that fit with your skills, with your values and your beliefs and your identity, when all those things line up, you can do some magical things, and you are already better than most people out there who might be offering something similar. So just go for it.
James Glover [00:36:51]:
And as somebody who, like, personally, wrestles with That exact decision and that exact choice. And it's, you know, it's it's really wonderful to kinda hear you say that with the level of conviction that you do. But translate it for me. Like, take me through the the kind of the the inner turmoil to get to the the bits that you had to really overcome to to to get there, or or you didn't. You just went, well, I don't know. I'm not gonna know, so screw it. Let's let's just jump off the cliff. Like, what what, what was the the kind of the conviction experience for you that enabled all of that?
Gary Steeples [00:37:34]:
I had supported people. I had people around me who who would reinforce the belief that you can do this, You know? And they would remind me of the proof of that. So this wasn't a blind faith. This was, you know, concrete examples of times when I had Done the thing that I wanted to go and do independently, and I've done it successfully for people. Even with that there, there's still that sense of a fear about taking that leap. And, you know, you can look at the face of it and you think, wow. Where am I possibly going to find opportunity to make this work? Where am I going to fit into this gap in the marketplace, for example. But there's there's one thing that, or not one thing.
Gary Steeples [00:38:21]:
There are many things that sport has taught me. You and I played hockey together for years, and, occasionally, we still do when you find some time to make it onto a hockey field, which I'm fully intend for us to do soon. One of the things I learned from playing hockey is that, you could look at a hockey field or any Team sport. If you have the ball in a position and you look up, you're trying to find a pass to a teammate and there is no pass on. There was just no opportunity. All you need to do is move the ball a meter and everything changes. Everything changes. All of a sudden, gaps have opened up everywhere.
Gary Steeples [00:39:01]:
So you just gotta start. You just gotta take a step and everything changes. And I coached the kids that on a Sunday morning down at Beeston Hockey club. You know you know, passionate about coaching the kids there. And it's wonderful to see the the change in their belief about what is possible from that static position. They move the ball meter, and it all changes. And you see them have these light bulb moments. And I hope they carry that over into the rest of their life.
Gary Steeples [00:39:30]:
And it's something I saw in my Leap of faith was just take a step, just star. And it's amazing what opens up.
James Glover [00:39:40]:
And, you know, just you even describing That, Gary. Like, the feeling I'm having is one of of kind of lightness. Like, it feels it feels like possibility. It feels, And that's because it feels true. Like, if you you stand in any perspective, if you have any worldview and you take a step to the left or to the right, you notice and see different things. And just that kind of principle idea of you only know what you know in the position that you are in, because You're only getting the information that's coming in that moment. So change the position. You'll get different information.
James Glover [00:40:17]:
Yeah. And then and then it might be possible.
Gary Steeples [00:40:20]:
Absolutely. I'm really big on horizons on this idea of of, broadening horizons. I say to the kids all the time, to my children, it's like, Broaden your horizons. Georgie and I will work to try and give them a different experiences because as you say, Different experience, different information, different insights, different opportunities. You just see what more things could be possible. And I think for any of us, If we could do that for the people, in however that might look, is a wonderful gift to give to the world. Yeah. It's great.
James Glover [00:40:53]:
So so, Gary, this is just, you know, really, this is kind of out of the coaching playbook 101. If you could if you could go back, if you could go back to to to to Gary Steeples, who was falling out of university and into the 1st BMW, Or to Gary Steeples who had just kind of had this interaction with this medical professional and felt deeply challenged, or Gary Steeples who fell off the wagon, a little bit further down the track, what what are the things that you would be saying to that person now and today?
Gary Steeples [00:41:26]:
I would say It it's okay not to know. It it's okay not to know the answers. I know back then, I I thought Successful people had all the answers. They knew everything. And I I behaved in that way. I remember vividly, Thinking that you walk into a room, you need to know stuff. You need to be the most interesting person, and you need to have all the answers if you're going to be of value. And and I know now, many years later, that's just not true.
Gary Steeples [00:41:56]:
Feel comfortable not to know. Feel comfortable to be openly vulnerable about the fact that you don't know. And, and, in fact, counter to how it might feel at the time, You just better things will happen. You will be more interesting by not knowing the answer and maybe just having a few more questions. And just and it and it it comes on to things like growth mindset and and fixed mindset. You know? Being For it to be okay not to know the answer is one of the the the fundamentals of growth mindset. Right? And, and I know I didn't have that. And I wish I had had it more at the time.
James Glover [00:42:37]:
Yeah. And, I think, Gary, just you know, there's there's something really wonderful here that that can kind of Almost help us kind of close the circle on this conversation, which is, you know, you you use this language about being valuable enough, And then you you just again use that same language of, of being of value in, in those kind of interactions And almost your, your journey of kind of awakening around, well, what does what does value really mean? And, how do I define it? Where does it come from? And what's the contribution that I make towards it? And that kind of willingness just to be open, Far more open to actually, who knows? I don't what my journey has taught me is I don't always know, but the more I stay open to To the world around me, to the people around me, the chances are I'm gonna kinda figure out what's right for me. And and the fact that All of that has led you to this place where, actually, the the impact that I wanna have in the world is about the interactions that people have with each other. And the more that people can see the importance and the significance of how we come together and the way we treat one another as being The unit of value for us as human beings could because we are social creatures. Right? That's a, That's a magical contribution to make in terms of the Gary Steeples dent that is left on the world, when your time here is done, my friend.
Gary Steeples [00:44:07]:
Yeah. Well, I hope so, because it it really is the basis for so much joy in life. And, And I see so much dysfunction in in communication and interpersonal relationships. There's just such a huge opportunity to help people to extract more Joy from life. In whatever that looks like, just by being a better communicator is an understanding maybe a bit more about why they communicate the way they do with each other. And that that it feels noble to me. And, and I I love to do it. And I and as you you said before, not just professionally, But, you know, socially with friends and family and with the kids at the hockey club, it's it's a total joy to do.
James Glover [00:44:52]:
Yeah. Well, I can personally attest to the quality of experience, given that we've known each other for 30 plus years. And, yeah, there are some stories that would probably shame us both that, shouldn't be captured, to be used against us by our children at some point.
Gary Steeples [00:45:11]:
Yeah. Certainly not podcast worthy. Yeah. Exactly.
James Glover [00:45:16]:
Gary, thank you so much for being with us on the excitable soul podcast today. Just Wonderful to have you and for you to be able to share those stories and those insights. Thank you so much.
Gary Steeples [00:45:24]:
Well, it's been my pleasure. Thanks so much, James. Pleasure.
James Glover [00:45:28]:
We come to a a natural conclusion in our conversation before or what felt like a natural conclusion. But the second that we stopped recording, We started talking, and we started to talk about some stuff that just felt really important In, understanding the deeper levels of Gary's journey, and actually what drives the commitment To the purpose that he now experiences. And in this conversation, I'm, you know, massively, upset with myself for, a, not asking the right question to bring it forward in the conversation, and b, pressing record while he's sharing this insight. So, Gary's Gary's taken a leap of faith, and he's allowed me to press record. We're just gonna go back a little step here. And and Gary, I'm not even sure of kind of what the right question for me to ask is in terms of the entry point. But what I really heard you talking about was the why of the why. Like, what is it that you experienced that really, creates the drive in you to focus on communication and relationships.
Gary Steeples [00:46:39]:
That's a good question. It it goes back to childhood. And, I shared with you that I had a very strained relationship with my dad. And We're very different people, very different ways of communicating. But I didn't understand that as a child. It was only later in life when I I learned a few fundamental things about psychology and about personality preferences that I discovered that, in fact, There's a reason for it. But growing up, it always felt like my dad and I just saw the world very differently. We speak a different language.
Gary Steeples [00:47:18]:
Now, my my dad's very focused on correctness And on, technicalities and on task. I'm very focused on people. I'm all about, about people's feelings and about possibility and not about the stuff my dad focuses on. And it always felt like we were talking across purposes, To the point where we it felt like we didn't like each other. You know? And, and that was, that's a really big thing for me As a young man growing up, it was also the same could be could be said about the relationship my mom had with my dad. They had a, and have a very different style of communication. And, I've just gone to university, freshers week. 3 or 4 days in, I got a phone call from home, days before mobile phones.
Gary Steeples [00:48:13]:
So it was the, you know, the the phone booth in the halls of residence, you know, and the word went out. Oh, it's a phone call for Gary. So Made my way downstairs to the phone booth and took a call from my mom to say, I'm thinking of leaving your dad. How do you feel about a separating? It's a big call. Right? And I said, if it's right for you, If it's right for the 2 of you, then yes. You know? You have my blessing to do that. I mean, god love my mom for even asking. What what a call to make, right, as a parent, but they clearly had waited until I'd gone to university.
Gary Steeples [00:48:52]:
They had made it work. They had been resilient, toughed it out to the point where I'd gone away to university. My sister had already gone. But it showed that there was a So much joy had been missed in their relationship, and so much joy of life had been missed in my relationship with my dad That could have been solved with a better understanding of people, of fundamentals of psychology, and of communication skills and preferences. And it's only later on in life when I fell into the world of communication skills, and I I I learned about Carl Jung's psychology and and insights discovery and MBTI, you know, psychometric testing that I discovered that my father is diametrically opposed to me And my mother in terms of his personality preferences. And I could see there was a reason for it. It's not right or wrong. It's just different.
Gary Steeples [00:49:48]:
And then with that basic understanding, you're able to figure out strategies for how to communicate better with each other. I think without that understanding, my dad and I would not have a relationship right now, but but we do. We we find a way to Have a good functioning relationship, but it involves both of us taking steps further towards each other in the way we communicate, and And we're able to successfully do that now. But it's that. That's the drive for me, is that if that's just my experience, there are people all around the world having those types of experiences With their family, with their friends, with their loved ones and their colleagues, with their customers. And there's so much joy that is being missed out on in the world that could be fixed, that could be accessed with just some simple communication skills and a bit better understanding of why this, why it is.
James Glover [00:50:38]:
And the The thing that's kind of hit me square in the heart, Gary, is, when you talked about, you know, my dad and I didn't Seem to really like each other. But but, actually, the kind of the understanding that you've got around How we come together and how we communicate with one another is it's got nothing to do with me as a person. It's got nothing to do with him as a person. It's not about good or bad people. It's about I see the world and understand it this way, and you see the world and understand it that way. And the more I Can try and see it from your perspective, the more that we can create a connection and vice versa.
Gary Steeples [00:51:19]:
So, it's a great summary. I love you and hate you in equal measure for encouraging me to share this story, But it's an important story. It, and it is an important story for me personally. But I think it could also be an important story for Lots of people because I know this exists elsewhere in the world.
James Glover [00:51:41]:
And and ladies and gentlemen, I hope that, that you can see the kind of the the the humility in both Gary and I in that, we we were in a conversation and in the moment. And, actually, sometimes it takes Time for the the the kind of the really emotive elements to kinda come to the fore. And, Gary, I've just incredibly grateful for you being willing to kinda just come back in and and go, you know what? This is the why of the why. This is what This is what really creates the emotive connection to the purpose that I have in the world and why I want to make the impact that I want to make is because I experience some stuff that other people don't have to experience. Or I can see opportunity and possibility for joy that might be missed. And it and people are, to some degree, suffering, and they don't need to. And that, my friend, is just an incredible Mission to be on in your life. So, yeah, thank you.
James Glover [00:52:40]:
And in order to just, you know, bring another movie reference, this is this is our Marvel This is our marvel moment. Right? This is us doing the post credits bit.
Gary Steeples [00:52:49]:
This is the credit scene. Yeah. Well well, I think the lesson For both of us is if you're going to ask really great coaching questions, always bring a banana.
James Glover [00:53:02]:
Amazing. Thank you, my
Gary Steeples [00:53:03]:
man. Thanks, James.
James Glover [00:53:08]:
Massive Thank you for taking the time to listen to the Excitable Soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding, and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs at the excitable soul.com. We look forward to hearing from you there We're being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.