Episode #3: Nicky Lowe
The Path to Purpose: Overcoming Burnout and Igniting Breakthrough Moments
In today's episode, I am joined by the incredible, Nicky Lowe. Nicky's life took a transformative turn when she experienced burnout.
This personal struggle not only shaped her as a person but also influenced her approach to work. Nicky describes this painful experience as an opportunity for self-reflection, which ultimately lead her understand her purpose better.
Throughout her journey, Nicky has undergone several iterations, each contributing to her growth and understanding of herself. Nicky believes that difficult experiences can often serve as a catalyst for self-discovery and purpose.
Throughout the conversation, Nicky shares insights into her childhood, highlighting the impact of her mother's parenting and her own journey of self-acceptance.
From a successful corporate career that left Nicky feeling unhappy and burned out, to a pivotal moment that led to a transformative shift, Nicky shares their story of breaking free from societal expectations and embracing a more fulfilling path.
Together we delve into the concept of purpose, discussing how it connects our intellectual clarity with emotional conviction, and empowers us to navigate the challenges we face.
We deeper explore the importance of sustainable performance and energy, shedding light on the individual and systemic factors contributing to burnout.
Links in this episode:
Get ready for a thought-provoking and inspiring episode that will leave you reflecting on your own journey and the meaningful pursuits that bring joy and fulfilment.
Tune in to this episode for an exploration of purpose, burnout, and breakthrough. Let's get started!
Read the transcript here
James Glover [00:00:09]:
Alrighty. Welcome to the excitable soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find Meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique Sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.
James Glover [00:00:45]:
So let's get going, shall we? Really incredibly excited to have Nicky Lowe with me today as our guest on the Excitable Soul podcast, Founder of Luminate Development and the Wisdom For Working Moms podcast. She's an award winning executive coach. She supported thousands of executives in some of the world's best known organizations to thrive, both personally and professionally. After having her 1st child, Nikki experienced burnout and just totally reimagined her approach to work and motherhood. And so now she's on a mission to support career driven women to combine their work and family life more successfully and sustainably without sacrificing their sanity or well-being. Nikki, welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Wonderful to have you with us.
Nicky Lowe [00:01:37]:
I'm really excited to be here, James. As you know, I love your work. And every conversation we have, I come away, The feeling like I'm I'm a better person for it, so I I, yeah, can't wait to dive into this one.
James Glover [00:01:50]:
Brilliant. Thank you so much. And I think we could basically spend the first 20 minutes of this podcast Just kind of giving each other high fives because the mutual respect is is definitely there. I just wanted to touch on that That kind of intro before we even dive into anything else, which is it's laden with purpose. It's laden with meaning. It's laden with contribution. I just I wonder if you just kinda give me a sense of your reflection when you hear it when you hear it out loud that way. Like, what what hits you? What resonates with you? What What kinda stands out with you? Because there's so much in that journey alone.
Nicky Lowe [00:02:26]:
Yeah. I think the the piece that really stood out is about that experience of burnout and how it really transformed the work that I was doing. It was such a personally strong experience and then how that informed, not only as I showed up as a human being, but then what I did With my work, and I think there have been several iterations on on my journey, which I'm sure we'll dive into. But whenever I hear that, it makes me realize that sometimes the most painful experiences often Make us reflect on our purpose and inform our purpose. So that's kind of what my reflection was as I heard
James Glover [00:03:13]:
that. And and already, kind of a powerful message for those that are are kinda listening to this conversation, which, you know, purpose can be misunderstood as having to be this kind of bright, Shiny, overwhelmingly hopeful and positive kind of guiding force in our life. And and, actually, it can just be a meaning making mechanism within suffering. Like, if we if we understand or we're able to gain insight, to gain meaningfulness from any of our experiences, especially painful ones, Then that can inform how we see the world around us going forwards. They can be as important as the really positive experiences, right?
Nicky Lowe [00:03:52]:
Yeah. And I always remember somebody saying to me, let your mess be your message. And I loved that. I was like, yeah, it's often in those kind of messy, And certain, like, really difficult times that we have to dig deep and reflect on that deep stuff, and that's what kinda guides us Through it and and and out the other side.
James Glover [00:04:11]:
Brilliant. Brilliant. I love that you've, you've kind of already teed us up there, the kind of the deep work, the deep stuff, which, You know, the whole premise of of this podcast and these conversations is, you know, we we wanna move beyond what people do and really explore who they are, like, The foundations of what enables them to to do the things that they can do. And within within your introduction, there's just this kind of really beautiful balance of Here's the things that I have achieved. Here's some of the outcomes. This is some of what I do. And there's a there's kind of the the nuggets of of who I really am that sits beneath that. So I'd really like to start by, I guess, just connecting the dots, talking about your journey to kind of uncover your sense of purpose.
James Glover [00:04:54]:
There's some of the moments that have really Gaped who you are. You know, where do you want to begin? What kind of stands out when you reflect on that kind of timeline?
Nicky Lowe [00:05:05]:
You gave me the real privilege of knowing you were gonna ask this question beforehand, so I did some reflection. And I was like, oh yeah, where would I take the dots back? And I think it makes sense to go right back to the beginning and reflect on my childhood. And I think a really powerful part of my childhood, and the older I'm getting, the more I I realize how powerful this is and and was, was that I obviously our parents shape shape us, you know, Significantly. And my mum and dad had a very interesting start in life in that they were both from the UK, but they met overseas. So they met overseas and then got married back in the UK and went back and lived overseas. So they met in Germany, got engaged, came back to the UK, got married, and then went and lived over in Hong Kong. So the reason that I say that is I kind of Wrote my life story, as most of us do unconsciously, at a very young age that I thought that I was gonna live and travel around the world. And, I suppose my horizons were quite expansive in that my mum Kind of went and worked in, worked in America as well when she was about 18.
Nicky Lowe [00:06:30]:
So for that generation, that was quite unusual. So I kind of had this expansive Horizon set that you could go anywhere and do anything and who knows where life will take you. So that I think informed A big part of my upbringing, I had a really kind of happy, I would say, in quotes normal childhood, me and my brother, raised in in in in Staffordshire in a village in Staffordshire, But I one of the pivotal points in my childhood that I reflected was when I was about 10. I I remember being a really overweight child at that point and the Becoming very conscious and self conscious of my physicality. And I think the reason that I share that is it had a very profound impact on me at that point in my life Because I was coming into that age where you became more self conscious. And as a girl, you wanted to, you know, judged on your looks and your appearance. And I had an amazing mum that was, like, total Positive unconditional regard and, you know, really built my self esteem and self worth of, you know, who you are is amazing. And I think what that did in terms of influence the kind of person I am now and that piece about purpose was that intrinsic piece Because my external validation wasn't there, because if anything, I was judged as not fitting a norm, The eye really went internally.
Nicky Lowe [00:08:12]:
So I focused very academically at that point. Like, I loved learning and I got my sense of self worth from learning. So I think that really informed a big part of My purpose about learning and growth and development came from the inside and nothing about the outside. And I think that's
James Glover [00:08:33]:
to there's just something really incredible in at such an early age, wrestling with, Expectation. And, how many of us are defined by external expectation of one One type or another. And for you to be in a position, you know, just at 10 years old, to start to to really feel The kind of the external expectation and, and it being a in a in a kind of a negative experience. There's kind of, like, conflict and, you know, disruption, if you like. But to have almost the kind of the powerful force of, well, let's not work from the outside in. Let's work from the inside out and a and a almost an immediate way of being able to kinda deflect That or or whether or deflect is the wrong word because, you know, we're not ever, immune to it, but actually have a way of being able to metabolize it
Nicky Lowe [00:09:37]:
And I I've got it you know, it's only now as a mother myself and with kind of the the the Benefit of hindsight, I realized what an incredible job my mum did in that. You know, I remember a a parent of another One of my friends saying to my mum, you know, what are you feeding? Are you are you, you know, you've given her food too late at night? And my mum very gracefully and respectfully kind of pushing that boundary back but knowing that, like, I knew that that wouldn't, like, that didn't matter, And knowing my sense of self worth from the inside, and fascinating because only a few years later, When I hit puberty, the weight came off me. It was almost like it was a puppy fat thing. And just noticing how people treated me differently and, Again, completely unconsciously, that piece around don't let your external be your sense of measure because it can fluctuate and it's It's so,
James Glover [00:10:39]:
Superficial, isn't it?
Nicky Lowe [00:10:41]:
Absolutely. Yeah. That's a really great word for it. So I And and so I think what it meant was I built my self worth, as I say, from the inside, maybe not always in healthy, positive ways. You know, academic performance is really important to me. That learning and development, that was where I I kind of gained that sense from. And then fast forward, I I went to university. Wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do career wise.
Nicky Lowe [00:11:10]:
Knew, I I was really interested. I loved business studies, and so I was like, I'll I'll go off and do a business studies degree. It's it's varied enough that depending on what I decide to do. My dad ran his own business, so I think, again, unconsciously, that had an impact on me. And my mum was a stay at home mum. And I say that at this point because that comes into play later down the line. So went off to university, did this business studies degree, which was a 4 year degree with a year out in industry. And for my year out in industry, I got taken on by, A technology company.
Nicky Lowe [00:11:46]:
They were a Silicon Valley, tech company and did a year working for them in London. Hadn't got a clue who they were at the time, but I was employed by an incredible guy that I think had, again, In hindsight, a quite powerful impact on on me and my work. Had this phenomenal year in London, being thrown in at the deep end, Supporting, it was a guy called Mouni Pangali who headed up a sales team and had brought me in as almost a Sales support for their for their team as a as a as an undergraduate. And I did the sales and marketing support for them, But he was really forward thinking and innovative, was a bit of a maverick, and basically gave me remit to Organise European events, support all of their customer engagement. I mean, I got to do the most incredible things. I went, you know, I went around Europe organizing events. I've got no background in doing this. I got to take customers sailing out Across the Solent for lunch across to the Isle of Wye and back, and I would organize all these events.
Nicky Lowe [00:12:56]:
So I got to do some phenomenal things. But he taught me a couple of things in that was that he was always really respectful to people on reception, to the guy who operated the lift, and kind of knew that importance of relationships and that everybody Everybody's important. They're a key part in the value chain and, to treat everybody with respect and recognize the part that they play. But also that kind of maverick approach of anything's possible, and you have far more potential than you you even know because he literally He threw me into the deep end, and I remember thinking, but doesn't he know, like, I've got no real work experience? And, like, I've never I've never done any of this. But it just It taught me that, oh my god. Yeah. I can do this, and anything is possible, and think outside those kind of the box of of what's been done before. So I think that was a really key pivotal part of, like, the catalyst in my career.
Nicky Lowe [00:13:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.
James Glover [00:13:51]:
And interesting sorry, Nikki. Interesting just Listening to where you started on the timeline in terms of, your parents and how they met and your kind of experience of My horizons were really broad. And, and so it felt like almost anything was possible Because, you know, you could live anywhere you wanted to live. You could go anywhere you wanted to go. And then fast forward, you interact with this guy who created A similar experience. You use the same language there of almost freedom to to do any anything was possible was the phrase that we used again. So Yeah. I I don't know.
James Glover [00:14:31]:
I'm just I guess I'm listening and wondering if there's almost a connection here between these 2 environments that have really Allowed you to thrive, but coming at different points in
Nicky Lowe [00:14:41]:
time. Yeah. And I I I think there's 2 factors. There's that Absolutely meeting people or being around people that got that mindset. And I think there's also that growth mindset in me of, Oh, so what can I do with this? Because at times it was overwhelming because I was put in situations where I hadn't got a clue. But because he'd got that he'd got a very entrepreneurial mindset of, well, let's just try it. Let's experiment. You know? You can't get it wrong.
Nicky Lowe [00:15:14]:
It's like we're learning as we're doing it. And when that combined with my mindset, which is I'm always learning, give myself the space to kind of Stretch myself and and get outside my comfort zone. I think the combination of those 2 and, again, because often your Personality and preferences is just so natural to you. You assume everybody's like that. I think in the work that I do and then that we do, you're going to get to all different types of people, I realized that, oh no, actually that isn't necessarily everybody's mindset.
James Glover [00:15:50]:
Yeah. So how do you how do you make sense of those experiences now through through your expression of purpose? Like, how have How have those dots connected in in in into the way in which you see and experience the world now?
Nicky Lowe [00:16:03]:
Oh, great question. So those particular dots, I think, particularly the experience with Mone, Pangali, the guy who was my boss, he He gave me more permission to be entrepreneurial. So my dad, as I said, ran his own business and I suppose was an entrepreneur, but wasn't so About pushing the boundaries, in in that way. He wasn't as creative and innovative, although he he ran a very successful business. So I think it gave me more permission to to go outside of the lines and that, actually, You never know what you're gonna find out when you do that. So I I think definitely that piece. But I I I think the piece about how I was raised in terms of that inner, Developing my inner core. Like, I love I love Pilates because, you know, developing your inner core gives you that stability to To have the flexibility.
Nicky Lowe [00:17:02]:
And I think about the psychological metaphor of that, of, like, I developed my core really early on. I think probably More so than many people at that age because I had that experience. I think it gave me more empathy for other people. Gave me more understanding into my own inner world and how I developed my resilience and How I grounded myself when things felt
James Glover [00:17:29]:
uncomfortable. Yeah. I've got this image now of Like, what does the mental version of a reformer look like? Because I love that analogy that, you know, the kind of the core stability creates, a really kind of strong foundation. You know, it helps to stabilize us and being able to understand That kind of sense of meaning and almost thinking about how how do I pay that forward? What does the contribution look like here? If if the if there are if the horizons are broad, if anything is possible, if entrepreneurialism means embracing new things and new people All of the time, if actually I start with, what's happening for me and what do I care about internally and express that Externally, I mean, what does the mental reformer look like?
Nicky Lowe [00:18:20]:
James, I think it is about that purpose, about what are your values. It's almost like we talk about Pilatos being that Core stability so we can have the flexibility of movement with integrity. And for me, it's almost like the psychological of how do I stay in my integrity and navigate the challenges and the discomfort and the difficult emotions and the difficult feelings. Like, what brings me back To my kind of stability and integrity. So when I do move, I don't injure myself and, you know, it's the psychological version of that. But I think a lot of the work that you're doing is That, you know, the purpose value being values led and being in alignment with
James Glover [00:19:02]:
that. I I love that that you're you're describing there, Nikki, in terms of, Understanding the kind of the the flexibility of movement, being able not not being limited, I guess, is that's part of That's part of it, isn't it? You know, the the the nature of core strength is that there's a freedom of movement, and and sense of purpose is the same in that God, isn't it? It's not, it it's a way to to unburden ourselves from a sense of limitation, And to create, I guess, a level of freedom around where and how do I want to be able to
Nicky Lowe [00:19:37]:
focus. Yeah. And I know you'll know this more than most because not only of your work in terms of the psychological work you do, but the people that you've worked with, elite Athletes and sports people, there's the physicality of it, but there's the psychological part of that as well.
James Glover [00:19:58]:
For sure. So you, you talked a moment ago a little bit about kind of pair you you becoming a parent and you reflecting now the experiences that you had and how significant they were and how they're informing how you want to be as a as a, as a as a parent. Will you Well, you kind of crossed the boundary for us outside of kind of how this, how the kind of the sense of meaning emerged from a a kind of a career and opportunity perspective and into, You know, kind of how you show up with the people that matter most to you.
Nicky Lowe [00:20:26]:
Well, I think there is a big leap that happened from, as I talked about, being in the technology sector. When I graduated, I went back into that company and ended up creating a really successful corporate career And on paper, looked phenomenal. You know, I'd got the company car, the big salary, the big bonus, the nice pension scheme, the stock Shares and all of that. But over a number of years, I found, my soul becoming less and less excited, James, to the point that I I was in distress and didn't realise it, so I was what I called a corporate prisoner. I'd I'd found myself Stuck in this corporate role, was building a lifestyle around all of those benefits, but had a great quality of life, But a poor standard no. A great standard of living, I would say, on the excerpt, but a really poor quality of life in that I was deeply unhappy, but I didn't know what to do about it. So and this was before I had my children. And I now realise what I was doing was I was burning out and I was on my 1st round of nearly burning out.
Nicky Lowe [00:21:42]:
And So I said to my, husband, he wasn't my husband at the time, but, it's now, let's go away on holiday. So We booked to go on a 2 week holiday to the Maldives, and I thought, you know, that'll give me some reflection time. I'll be able to recharge. And we were 2 weeks into a, we were a week into this 2 week holiday, sat in paradise, As you know, all of the pictures you can imagine of the Maldives, gorgeous beach, you know, crystal clear, See, you know, just phenomenal. And the 1 morning I, we got a call from my brother and he just shared, Just shared on this phone call, Nick, mom's died very suddenly, very unexpectedly, and it was 24 hours before we could get a flight out of the Maldives. So I was sat in paradise, having built this life that from the outside looked incredible. But that was a key pivotal moment for me and my purpose because I sat there and went, I can't do this anymore. I literally cannot go back the life that I had.
Nicky Lowe [00:22:51]:
And in those 24 hours, I decided I was gonna hand my notice in. And, Yeah. I the way I describe it is that the world kept turning after that phone call, but it had shifted on its axis. So it never quite turned in the way that it had done before, and life was never the same again. And I think what that did at that moment was, like, viscerally connect me to, like, what is this about? Like, what am I here for? Because if it can change in that heartbeat, I've gotta figure this stuff out because I'm not the way I'm living my life isn't working. So what is my life about? And so I didn't know at the time. I was deeply connecting to kind of purpose. And what I haven't added in about my upbringing is I was actually raised in a very spiritual family.
Nicky Lowe [00:23:44]:
And, again, I didn't know any different. So my mom's side of the family, were incredibly spiritual. Like, my my granddad was an animal healer, My other my my uncles and my aunts kind of incredibly spiritual, so I was always raised with this belief of there is something bigger, there is something more, And you are put on this Earth for a reason, and in this lifetime, your journey is to figure out that reason and and live in alignment with it. So I think my mum dying really woke me back up to that. I've kind of lived in this kind of head associated I'm in the corporate world. I'm like, I'm, You know, I'm I'm climbing the corporate ladder and I become disconnected from that. And in that moment, I deeply connected back to that of like, What what am I here for? What is this about?
James Glover [00:24:32]:
Amazing that in that moment of trauma, The immediate human reaction and response in you is to go is to go back, is to go deeper, is to go down into much more Foundational connection because we were talking about, you know, the kind of the the the standard of living. It's superficial. Right. Superficial in in nature. And actually, to find the thing that's the the thing that's far more grounding in you to be able to create a sense of faith and belief in what what can come next. Like, that's the beauty of purpose for me. It's it's about hacking uncertainty. Like, when you look forward and you're entering a dark room and you don't know where the light switch is, like, purpose isn't the light So you can kind of look around in the dark room and go, oh, yeah.
James Glover [00:25:30]:
That bit over there. Let's head towards that.
Nicky Lowe [00:25:32]:
I love that as a metaphor. I think that's really powerful. Yeah. Because it doesn't it doesn't make everything Perfect and simple, but it gives you something to navigate it by. So, yeah, I think that is such a beautiful
James Glover [00:25:43]:
metaphor. But also this sense of, Something bigger than you. You know, what whatever that is. You know? And and then, the the kinda previous conversations and speaking with people, they've talked about this idea of service beyond me, something that's beyond my self interest, which is, you know, a powerful part of, of the impact of purpose because it creates that sense of, you know, self and self worth in that if I make A contribution to something that I really care about, then, actually, that feels real. It feels real to me. And it's almost like you were in that moment going, Where's the wheel ness?
Nicky Lowe [00:26:20]:
Yeah. And I think it also gives me, and I know that with the work that you did with the energy project, you'll get this, that It taps into an energetic source for me. So I always think about having experienced burnout, which I know we haven't kinda come on to yet, but I'm really curious about energy, about where do we get it from, how do we sustain it. I always think about energy in terms of 3 levels. Like, what can I do in myself to support my energy? You know, Nutrition, you know, movement, sleep, you know, that self piece. Then I think about support, like whose support do I need around me? And we Before we hit record, we talked about, like, the teams that we're building around is somehow amazing it is to have their support. And then I also think about this Source support, you know, whatever that might mean for people, whether it is a religious or a spiritual or a or just that sense that there's a bigger picture. And for me, there's that I lean into that energy when I'm in those uncertain times.
Nicky Lowe [00:27:23]:
It's like I can trust that it's not just me navigating this. It's Like and that I find really reassuring, particularly in those uncertain times.
James Glover [00:27:32]:
Yeah. I and I love the language that you're using. I I feel I feel I can trust that. You know, if you if somebody said point to it, if somebody said measure it, if somebody said you know, the usual things that we get shut down with when we're trying to help people really connect themselves with how to be at their best, You know, especially in an organizational context, actually, what you're saying is in the most difficult moments, the things that you can't measure Are the things that you can absolutely trust? Because there's an intuition there.
Nicky Lowe [00:28:06]:
Yeah. That was that visceral response when I was sat on that beach In the Maldives that none of it made sense, so the situation of that call didn't make sense. But then my reaction to it, you know, my My as I say, he's now my husband, but at the time, it was my partner. We just brought, a farmhouse that we were renovating. And for me to go, I'm Stepping away from my corporate career, like, he the the color drained out of his face because he was like, what? We haven't planned this. We've not.
James Glover [00:28:33]:
And there goes the house.
Nicky Lowe [00:28:35]:
Yeah. And everybody thought I was crazy. Like, what? You're walking away from your big corporate career to do you don't know yet what? But I'd got a, like, an inkling, and I was just trusting the feeling. I was you know, what that experience did, as I said, it shifted me on my I've been very head associated. I've been very logical, rational, and I kind of was like, well, that has not helped me. And I again, this wasn't a conscious response, But I went very visceral. Like, what feels good? What feels right? I will just take the next step towards that and trust that it's gonna take me somewhere. And that's really the path that I went on to now do the work that I do.
James Glover [00:29:16]:
Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. So, you've kind of alluded to it a couple of times in the conversation so far, Nikki. There's definitely you know, that that was a really significant moment on the beach in the Maldives, But there's also a really significant moment around burnout for you and how that has, I guess, even Further deepened the connection and conviction to the type of work and impact that you wanna create in the world around you?
Nicky Lowe [00:29:41]:
Yeah. So I when I was experienced kind of the burnout in the corporate world, I'd kind of put it down to, it's just being in a corporate environment. Like if I, if I remove myself from that, I, you know, I won't, I'll be able to flourish. And to a degree, that was true. But what I've learned over that journey is that I I set up my own business after The experience in the Maldives. I retrained as an exec coach, set up my own business, and that was 18 years ago now, and was running you know, built my business up to be really successful. And then we got married and we decided to start a family. And I thought I was in a great place to do that.
Nicky Lowe [00:30:21]:
Everything just felt right. And I totally underestimated the impact of becoming a parent and that transition and then trying to Hold the identities of my work identity and my parent identity. And what it meant was I'd approached it. I was trying to work like I I didn't have children and I was trying to parent like I didn't have work. And it led to, a year after having my first child, my son, I I literally burnt out. I didn't know it was burnout at the time. I just became very unwell to the point that I was just struggling to get out of bed. I'd be playing with my son on the floor and struggling to get up off the floor.
Nicky Lowe [00:31:00]:
And I kept going to the doctors going, something's not right. I really don't feel right. And they kept doing blood tests and they were like, no, you're absolutely fine. You're just a new parent. All new parents are tired. And I, I knew every cell in my body Literally felt fatigued. It wasn't the tiredness that you get if you've just not had a good night's sleep. By that point, my son was actually So I was like, this doesn't feel right'.
Nicky Lowe [00:31:24]:
And so I started to think, well, maybe I've got a rare illness that Nobody knows what it is. And I ended up finding an incredible lady who's a functional medicine practitioner that did Different tests on me and ended up diagnosing me with it was then called adrenal fatigue. It's not called that anymore. They call it HPA axis dysregulation. But effectively, I'd I'd burnt my adrenal system out. And I kind of had this really profound moment again where I was like, How the hell has that happened? With everything I know, like, how would I how had that happened? You know, I'm a coach. I help people with high performance. You know, I know, Like so I was like, obviously, I didn't do enough self care.
Nicky Lowe [00:32:11]:
Obviously, I didn't do enough yoga. Obviously, I didn't eat enough avocados. You know, there was that kind of mindset that went into place, but it meant I got fiercely curious, James, like, fiercely curious. So I was like, if I can't understand how it's happened, how can I stop it happening again? And that really set me off on this journey that I've been on really for the last decade of understanding what sustainable performance is, sustainable kind of energy and how we've really come to connect over that time. And that has been a really profound part of my purpose because what I've discovered on that journey has been life changing for me, but also has meant that I wanna share that with more people because I think Far too many people are on that brink of burnout or just a breath away from it and may not realize it. Or if they do, they don't know what to do about it or they're blaming themselves. Whereas I've come to realize, yes, there are kind of individual factors, so the psychobiological, but there are so many systemic factors in this as well, so that kind of psychosocial and how those interplay. And that's really where so that experience was really profound.
James Glover [00:33:20]:
And and let's just, you know, let's just Pause on a couple of those points here, like adrenal fatigue. That is your fight or flight system in your body. You burned it out. So, like, let's just you know, for for the people who are listening here, let's just take a moment for that that that this the survival mechanism within your system was getting revved so hard for so long, you broke it. And it's one of the most, you know, it's one of the most deeply important mechanisms in your human system. That's how hard you were going. So people need to kinda get the context here of that's how hard you're pushing to do everything. And then the second thing there that was, you know, equally just kind of stood out hard was this sense of, this sense of I knew it.
James Glover [00:34:07]:
I knew I knew what I should be doing. I knew how I should be I knew what it takes to perform and the gap between knowing and doing. Right? And and how often do we confuse the fact that we know something into doing something about it. And so awareness is only the first part, isn't it? Awareness is it's also then about commitment.
Nicky Lowe [00:34:30]:
And I think the important part that links in with this purpose conversation is I knew it in my head, but I wasn't connecting it to my body. So I was like, oh, I know the theory. And, you know, I can sit down and meditate for 10 minutes, but my My body wasn't meditating. My head was like, we're we're here. We're you know, I'd take a relaxing bath, but I'd be like, it's not the perfect temperature, and this room needs tightening. You know? So you can do the, you know, the activities and tick it off, but unless you connect with your body and really get into that Somatic intelligence of what is the wisdom in my body? And I I recently inter interviewed a a kind of Mutual connection, Jean goes around his work on, interoception and the power of what our bodies are telling us and how much Data are we actually tuned into? John gave me so many insights around that that I'm like, oh, yeah.
James Glover [00:35:29]:
Well, I think the the, the simplest and most powerful insight around John's work for me was that The the kind of the science of interception is simply the body is giving you information every 2nd of every day, but it's giving you billions of bits of data every second of every day. Your brain is getting that information. How aware are you of that data, And how are you choosing to utilize it? Billions of bits of data that we're just ignoring or or suppressing. Imagine what's possible when you start to open that up. And I think for me, the power of purpose in the way that kind of I've described this and kind of debated it with with John has been, purpose creates a connection between intellectual clarity and emotional conviction. It's not one overriding the other. It's how those 2 things can interplay and create focus and direction. And that that is enabling you to be able to take all of the information that you've got to hand and make sense of it in a meaningful Way.
James Glover [00:36:35]:
And what do we mean by meaningful? We just mean important. We just mean significant.
Nicky Lowe [00:36:39]:
Yeah. Love that. And it kind of loops making me loop back what we said right at the beginning about those early childhood experiences for me connected me to my kind of intrinsic kind of motivation because I think the world gives us so much information and tells us what's important and what we should be focusing on and what we should be doing at any moment. But the real truth comes from the body, not because we were we're gonna get kinda pulled in so many different directions. And it's about putting your hand back on your heart and going, okay. I'm listening to all of that, but this is what's important. This is what my body's telling me is needed right now. And I find the more I can do that, the more I'm in alignment with my own truth and my own, integrity.
James Glover [00:37:28]:
Yeah. Wow. I mean, just even in this short space of time, Nikki, the connecting of the dots of the journey that you've been on, but also that sense of understanding purpose for you. Like, what what does real meaning look like in being able to create The the the the shift from kind of superficial to to internal and access that, but also What that then has created in terms of leaps of faith. So leap of faith of giving up a whole load of stuff that nobody thought that you would be able to give up to go and do something completely different, To put yourself in a position where as a new mom, having to just reimagine the world around you and how you exist within it. Like, In those moments when you're trying to be as safe and trying to be as secure as you possibly can, yet again going, nah. Something's gotta change. Something's gotta be different Yeah.
James Glover [00:38:20]:
Because this just isn't okay. And in order to do that, making that connection between, you know, kind of the cerebral and the soulful, is is incredible. I I'm wondering if I'm wondering what the kind of the words of wisdom would be from you To those that are listening in terms of, you know, that sense of knowing but not doing, that sense of having to have these massive disruptive moments in order to kinda create the clarity for for that for that shift. You know, I I know you now, and I know that you don't need those moments to be reflecting in a way that drives, those same level of kind of changes. So how how can we help those that are listening almost Not have to suffer the trauma to get to the same outcome. Like, what can they be doing now to to to kinda
Nicky Lowe [00:39:11]:
to Great question. I think, For me, with my tendencies so what I learned through those burnout kind of experiences was it's not the environment that I'm in. It's how I approach my environments that I have to pay attention to because it's almost like you put me in any environment and I can to burnout. I've got high drive, high conscientiousness. I'm empathetic. So like, all of these things, like, I'm picking up everything. I wanna rescue everybody. I wanna achieve so much, and I don't wanna let anybody down.
James Glover [00:39:47]:
I could do it all brilliantly Yeah.
Nicky Lowe [00:39:49]:
Today? Yeah. So I've got this kind of superwoman tendency if I'm not careful, which is why I kind of rev up my adrenaline system and can get Stuck in that chronic stress. You know? We're meant to have those acute stresses, but the chronic stress is what I can easily get stuck in and then not pay attention to my body because I'm just, like, I'm locked in. So what I've learned is tending to my nervous system And really making sure that I'm not just hitting my drive and threat system, which is drive, get Stuff done and get the dopamine hit. And, like, I'm ambitious, get stuff done. But then I can very much slip into my threat system of, oh, there's not enough time. How am I gonna do everything? So I really pay attention to dropping into my soothing system, so getting in that oxytocin and the opiates to really soothe my nervous system. And so I build in practices.
Nicky Lowe [00:40:40]:
So they're daily, weekly, monthly practices that really just drop me into Really being back connected to my body is the honest, you know, getting into calming my nervous system, being able to listen to my body, And create those almost like pockets of possibility for me to tune into the to my body. Because as we said, often we have those massive disruptive moments, and we often have those because we're not listening to the little whispers along the way that have given us the data. And so I've I've consciously almost curated in my life the how do I slow down, how do I go quiet To listen to those whispers because that will give me powerful information.
James Glover [00:41:23]:
Yeah. Amazing. And the level of intention, Required to create the action associated with that is, I think, it is something that we can all actually own And that we can all do something about and with. You know, the level of insight you have over what you need because of The journey that you've been on is, you know, is really, really powerful. But even just from the very beginning, just turning around saying, what moments are you creating to be able to soothe yourself Anywhere at any point in time because what's the cost of not?
Nicky Lowe [00:41:57]:
That's As we know, working with high performers, You know, that is the difficult bit. You know, it sounds like it's, you know, it's like rest and recovery. We don't like to do those because it feels like it's, you know, that we're we're time, but it's like, oh, no, but that's where the power
James Glover [00:42:13]:
happens. Yeah. And so if you, if you kind of translate that back up into Fueling your purpose, Nikki. How do those moments then help you connect to that kind of that That sense of purpose and how it shapes the way in which you not just make sense of the world, but kind of what comes
Nicky Lowe [00:42:31]:
next. Yeah. And I suppose what came into my head as you said that is The analogy that we used earlier about, like, the Pilates, about that core alignment and core stability, you know, the outside world will tell us The the best way to be fit and healthy is to go for a run or do hit exercise or, you know, get our heart rates all the way up. And we can be conditioned into I'm not working out or doing good for my body unless I'm breaking a sweat and I'm doing some kind of HIIT, But knowing that actually the integrity, the alignment, the strength, flexibility comes from those quieter, You know, more, intentional movements. I think that for me is the important piece with this, about The more I do that inner work, the more it it connects me, empowers me to do the The external stuff. But if I, if I don't do that, I'm either go gonna listen to the noise and go off in the wrong direction, Or I'm not going to bring my whole self with me. So I'm almost putting on a mask to do it. So I think the purpose piece is about me being in my strength.
Nicky Lowe [00:43:43]:
My strength is like my values And and being in integrity with what is most important and using that as the fuel because it's it's more sustainable. I'm less likely to get injured. I just feel more myself in doing it and then bring the best of myself to it.
James Glover [00:44:03]:
Yeah. Unleashed. Unleashed. Unleashed in a sustainable way, which I think is a really incredible message for for, for those listening here. Yeah. Nikki, I just wanna I just wanna thank you just for the the depth of experience that you've been able to share And, you know, in what is a relatively short space of time and kind of covering off some really significant moments in in your life and how they've shaped Who you are, but the level of intention and integrity, I think, is the the keyword that you now bring to everything that you're doing. And the way in which You're able to to rely upon and trust a sense of purpose in, in taking you forward into the unknown, I think just has been really incredible for for us all to hear and experience. So thank you for bringing that to the conversation today.
James Glover [00:44:55]:
It's been amazing.
Nicky Lowe [00:44:56]:
Oh, you're very welcome. And as you're saying that, I what I wanted to just reflect is, And I don't always do it perfectly all the time, but I think what happens is when you go off course, You almost have to surrender in those moments because you realize you're off court. And it's in those moments of surrender where you go, I haven't got a clue. I don't know what's going on here. I've got it wrong. How do I get back on course? That that's when you do the inward connection, and trusting the feelings, but being able to go slow enough to be able to do that. So, yeah, I that's I hope to be in alignment and be in integrity with intention, but I don't always do that. But it's been an absolute joy to reflect And and to join the dots and and to have that conversation with you, James.
James Glover [00:45:46]:
Thank you. A brilliant brilliant note finish on, I just wanna share something that felt really, relevant. You might have seen me kind of scurrying from my phone while you were talking that my sister yesterday sent me a message, And she just said, Shakespeare himself is on board with the excitable soul, and this quote, the Shakespeare quote, kind of really feels really relevant what you've been describing this conversation, which is the meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose is, the purpose of life is to give it away. Beautiful. Of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. And if, if anything can sum up what you've shared with us today, it's that beautiful journey to find what was really important to you, and now you're just level of motivation to share that with others and help them benefit from it.
James Glover [00:46:34]:
So, Nikki, thank you very much for being with us today.
Nicky Lowe [00:46:37]:
Thank you, James.
James Glover [00:46:40]:
Massive thank you for taking the time to listen to the Excitable Soul podcast. If you are interested in Uncovering, understanding, and unleashing your sense of purpose. Come and explore our purpose immersion programs at the excitable soul.com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.