Episode #45 Stuart Branch

Creating Environments That Matter: Lessons in Purpose-Driven Leadership with Stuart Branch

In this episode of The Excitable Soul Podcast, we welcome Stuart Branch. Stuart isn’t just a high-achieving executive leader, he’s a lifelong learner, a champion for people, and someone who’s curious about what makes us tick.

As the Chief People & Digital Officer at Weetabix, he shapes culture, growth, and innovation, but what really stands out is the how rather than just the what he does. With a wealth of experience across industries like hospitality, retail, financial services, and manufacturing, Stuart shares his insights on leadership, finding purpose at work, and the foundations that have shaped who he is today.

Together we explore the role of curiosity, the impact of nurturing environments both at home and at work, and the power of authentic feedback. Stuart reflects on pivotal moments from his own journey, what it means to balance empathy with performance, why reflective practice matters, and how making deliberate choices can help us show up as our best selves.

Whether you’re a business leader, a parent, or anyone seeking greater fulfilment, this conversation is packed with thoughtful wisdom, actionable insights, and a healthy dose of inspiration.

Let’s dive in and discover how to uncover, understand, and unleash your own sense of purpose, with Stuart Branch on The Excitable Soul Podcast.

Read the transcript here

James Glover [00:00:09]:

Alrighty. Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we are going to be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find a sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.

James Glover [00:00:44]:

So let's get going, shall we? Today's guest is someone I am proud to know and excited for you to hear from, Stuart Branch. Stuart's a lifelong learner and, and a deeply intentional leader. Over the past decade, he's held executive roles across hospitality, retail, financial services and manufacturing, always bringing a sharp commercial edge and a clear focus on people, purpose and performance. In his current role at the Weetabix food company, Stuart leads across people and culture, environment, health and safety, and digital transformation. But titles only tell part of the story. What makes Stuart's leadership stand out is the care and clarity he brings to how he shows up for his team, for the community and for his family. He's somebody who has consistently evolved, following his curiosity, building on his insights and staying grounded in what really matters. Stuart lives in Silverstone with his wife Christine and twin daughters Megan and Sarah.

James Glover [00:01:45]:

A keen fundraiser, he enjoys triathlon, swimming and the challenges of endurance sport. Today he brings a generous and thoughtful perspective on life, work and leadership. Enjoy the conversation. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Excitable Soul podcast.

Stuart Branch [00:02:00]:

Got Stuart, thank you.

James Glover [00:02:02]:

How are you feeling today?

Stuart Branch [00:02:05]:

I'm very, very well, thank you. I'm rested and energized after a fabulous weekend.

James Glover [00:02:12]:

Rested and energized. Brilliant. Be careful everybody. We're going to be into a high energy conversation. So Stuart, you and I have known each other for, for a little while now actually. And the gift of that means that I can probably ask some big questions in a way that maybe it takes a little bit of time for other guests to kind of, to warm into the conversation. But I guess before we dive into some of those, like, you know, kind of your journey and your experience and how you arrive here today and the way in which you make sense of the world, given the nature of your role and the time that you have spent as an executive, an executive leader across a, you know, a massive, massive organization. The whole principle of this conversation is about meaning and purpose.

James Glover [00:02:58]:

How has that shown up for you in the world that you have occupied for such a long time? Where has it been important and useful and powerful? And when has it been a distraction or just a, you know, pain?

Stuart Branch [00:03:13]:

Oh, that's a big question to start with. I. I've been fascinated by business performance and the impact that leaders have on business performance for a long time, and it has me do what I do for a job, has me do what I do for a career, and I have been massively fortunate. Live the life that Richard Brunson and others are kind of accredited with saying, which is find work that you enjoy doing and you don't have to work another day for the rest of your life. And that has just been such a privilege for me. And it means that I have really operated in a way that has me curious and interested by what motivates people, what gets people deliver their best work, what gives people job satisfaction, career satisfaction, what. What enables people to give of their best? You know that, that holy grail search for employee engagement.

James Glover [00:04:33]:

Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Branch [00:04:33]:

Is all of that stuff mixed in, isn't it? And whether you want to drive profits, drive sales, reduce costs, you know, operate leaner, faster for innovation, it's. It's all mixed in that why do I come to work, what's important to me, how do I feel valued and how do I contribute and give my best?

James Glover [00:04:58]:

So this is going to be like, amazing already because there's, there's kind of, there's almost dual perspectives immediately that I'm interested in exploring. One is that's that. That journey for you, to the point of being able to just kind of own the Branson comment. How did you get to that point? When did you become aware of what that work was going to look and feel like because it, because it was meaningful to you. And then if you flip that into the kind of the leadership responsibility of trying to cultivate into others in order to be able to deliver those kind of outcomes. Right. So, you know, there are going to be lots of business leaders who listen to our podcast who are going to be like, yeah, we want to innovate, we want to be leaner. We've got to make change processes.

James Glover [00:05:41]:

Agile is really critical to us. And to be able to marry those two things up is a wrestle. Right? Is a real wrestle. So can you, can we just. Can we pick those apart and start with one and then move into the other?

Stuart Branch [00:05:53]:

Sure, sure. I've been asked a few times and tried to in myself, where did that start? And I, I started my career, so, so Let me go back further than that. I went to school, I went to what was derecognized as a grammar school the year I went there. So it had been a grammar school until that point when I joined it wasn't, it wasn't a grammar school that, and that wasn't causality by the way of me joining, it was the other way around.

James Glover [00:06:29]:

Just lowered the standard by walking through the door. Excellent.

Stuart Branch [00:06:34]:

But I did have an older brother that went to the school and my older brother was much more studious, much more, much more read than I was. He was very much into reading books and was a lot more interested in kind of literature and he had excelled during those years in the grammar school. I got to the school and the school was brilliant for me with the benefit of years hindsight after that the school was fabulous for me. However, at the time the corridors of the schools echoed with branch, why can't you be more like your brother? It was a very academic school and that wasn't where I excelled but I did excel on the sports field. I, I played in nearly all of the school sports teams and I learned a hell of a lot of discipline at the school through sport and through other schooling kind of disciplines. I left school with very few qualifications, no, no A levels and, and certainly no intent to go into university. But I ended up in the catering industry and I worked for Grammer Paulson Retailing limited to begin with Bernie Restaurants and then went on to Beefeater and I worked for a couple of managers who were natural people, people, they were brilliant at the jobs that they did because they gave great customer service and they were great managers of business operations because they know how to motivate and manage people. And that is one of the things that really shaped my career very early on.

Stuart Branch [00:08:25]:

Don't remember particular incidents of working for them, but I remember when I got my first ever general management position. I was a licensee at the age of 20. The court had to be adjourned while they considered whether they'd give somebody under the age of 21 a license. I got my license and I was a general manager of a restaurant and 18 months after getting my first appointment I was in Park Lane in the Grosvenor House at the Beefeater Gold Ball and, and Beefeater in those days had done a balanced scorecard and you got red, amber, green, gold and if you got gold on all of your scorecard you got to go to the ball. I was 20, 21 years old and I'm at the Gold Ball and and thinking about how did I end up here? And I knew from work that I developed this kind of fascination with human behavior. I was. I was watching what customers were thinking and expecting and getting my team to exceed their expectations. I was noticing how the waiting staff interacted with the bar staff and interacted with the chefs, of which waiting staff got the most tips because of how they worked as a team or didn't work as a team.

Stuart Branch [00:09:49]:

And I just became fascinated and almost in an ethical way. I was running micro experiments in my business every day to try and get the best service for customers and get the most tips for the staff and have the happiest team. So that's one of my kind of earliest recollections of how does this stuff work and why had I started to notice it?

James Glover [00:10:21]:

Yeah, and I'm really interested by like a couple of the comments there, Stuart. One, one of this. The halls rang out with branch, why can't you be like your brother? And. And how that felt and what. What experience that created for you. But then also when you talked about the people that you'd worked for in this industry where you can't remember particular instances, but there was this sense of something they created a feeling, a state within you that you still connect to now, even though the specific moments on things that you hold close. And so I'm wondering what that felt like. What was it that they cultivated within you that then started to spark this sense of curiosity?

Stuart Branch [00:11:07]:

Yeah, I had a very privileged upbringing. My mum was a very nurturing mother. My dad was a successful senior executive in kind of Unilever and other businesses thereafter. And the combination of those two meant that we were treated as individuals. So whilst the school was saying, branch, why can't you be like your brother? My. The relationship that I had with my mum and dad was completely different. They loved me, my brother and my sister, in equal measures, but not by treating us the same, by treating us very, very differently. My dad won't mind me telling the story of just before my driving test at the age of 17, he said, pull over.

Stuart Branch [00:12:01]:

And I pulled over. He was teaching me to drive at this Pull over. And he said, when you've passed your test, what are you going to do? I said, drive. And he said, what are you going to drive? And I said, this mum's car. And he went, no, you're not. And I said, why not? And he said, well, why do you think you are? And I said, well, because my brother does. And he went, yeah, your brother can be trusted. And I went, whoa, Hang on, that's not fair.

Stuart Branch [00:12:21]:

And dad went, it's exactly fair. Life treats you the way that you deserve to be treated. Your brother is trusted to drive your mum's car. You're not. You need to buy a car. And that happened.

James Glover [00:12:36]:

What?

Stuart Branch [00:12:37]:

And that happened. So my dad, I have a fabulous relationship with him now. You and I have spoken about my relationship that I have with him now. He is an incredible inspiration and mentor to me, but he never fudged life lessons. You know, the truth that you got from him was. Was incredible. Consequence management, I learned from the age of 2 or 3 years old, not. Not in my 20s and 30s, through.

Stuart Branch [00:13:07]:

Through management or leadership development.

James Glover [00:13:09]:

Yeah, brilliant. But, yeah, love him coaching you.

Stuart Branch [00:13:14]:

Yeah, exactly.

James Glover [00:13:15]:

And also like the, the kind of. The power of genuine feedback. Right.

Stuart Branch [00:13:19]:

So this, this is like.

James Glover [00:13:21]:

He's not. This isn't some me versus you conversation here. This is, hey, here's the expectation. You're not meeting that expectation and therefore the outcome isn't. And you can, we can discuss that if you want, but let's just be really clear on what. That's it.

Stuart Branch [00:13:35]:

And that was true about borrowing tools, that was true about mowing the lawn, that was true about playing football, you know, all the rest of it. And, and as I said, my mum was so nurturing. You know, the sense from either of them that you, you can achieve whatever you want to achieve in life, but don't kid yourself about the effort and the work and the, the sacrifices or choices. I don't think they ever talked about sacrifices, but choices that you need to make for it to become true.

James Glover [00:14:05]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Stuart Branch [00:14:06]:

So. So while, you know, school wasn't a pleasant experience, school lessons were not at all. And, you know, did I underperform from an academic point of view? Massively. Was. Was that in part due to the treatment and the conditioning I was getting in school? Yes. Do I blame them for it? Absolutely not. It's on me. Completely on me.

Stuart Branch [00:14:30]:

But you are a nature of your environment. Without a doubt.

James Glover [00:14:33]:

Yeah, for sure. When you look back on the way that you describe those experiences of your mother and father, you know, you use the language of kind of. You feel privileged because of the environment that they created and how they interacted with you and your brother and sister, you talked about the nurturing of. Of your mom and the kind of the authenticity and the truthfulness of your father. How do you make sense of the way in which that has shaped you in the world today? What was the consequence of their choices in their investment in you?

Stuart Branch [00:15:08]:

I think it was That I said it a second ago, I think it was a sense that you can achieve anything you want to. So many people have met me say it's not a shy, retiring, shrinking violet. There's a self belief there. Back to what I said about. But not without choice, not without commitment and. Yeah, so therefore, kind of the art of the possible was always there for us. But you need to create some choices and you need to put some work and effort in to get there.

James Glover [00:15:54]:

Yeah, I love this, I love this sense of like, agency that is like anything is possible if you work and you. There are consequences associated with the choices that you make. So you might make some good ones, you might make some bad ones. Either way, you've made them. And what is that? Yeah, yeah, there's something about the, the power of that. You know, when you talk about being the, the, the kind of the, the product of your environment. School is only one environment that you were in.

Stuart Branch [00:16:28]:

Right.

James Glover [00:16:28]:

There's the home environment too. And you know, as somebody with young children, my wife and I really consciously think about not our environment at home, but are also seeing the consequences of the school environment that our children are in and the people that they find themselves surrounded by, et cetera, et cetera, and the wrestle between the two. So there's, there's something just really important for all of us to kind of sit with and think about how our environments have shaped us, but also how we consciously create the environments that we are within and can influence.

Stuart Branch [00:16:59]:

Yeah, I categorically agree. And you know, whether it be learning to windsurf on family holidays, whether it be skiing as a family and whether it be. I remember my mum saying, you know, we, we, we put you into judo because you needed a release of your energy. You needed to learn that there was a framework and there were boundaries for where it's okay to metaphorically kick and punch people so that, so that if we give you an outlet to do it, you don't do it all the time. And I think you're absolutely right. Those, the power and the influence of those relationships and the clubs and the hierarchy is not the right word. But pecking orders around kids and authority, Cubs, scouts, whatever it was that you kind of went on to do, learning to respect authority, but also learning to appreciate it, to challenge it, to know how to judge it, make sense of it, I think is all part of certainly what, who, what makes me who I am. And as I say, I do think that I had a very fortunate environment in that regard.

Stuart Branch [00:18:28]:

And wider than just my mum and dad My aunt, my uncle, my grandmother. You know, there were, there were influences, probably not for today, but there were influences that went wider and beyond that. That again, were very nurturing.

James Glover [00:18:41]:

Yeah, amazing. And you talked about this sense of kind of curiosity and interest in people and how they, how that, how that grew and is almost kind of influencing you still today in terms of the work that you do and where and how you find meaning in the work that you do. And here you talk about this kind of super young general manager, really high performing general manager. And part of that was this kind of curiosity and interest in, in people. And we've spoken a lot about the importance of having the customer at the heart of everything that we do. And that was ultimately what's giving them the best experience and how do we work back from that in terms of, in terms of the team. So I'm hearing something about the importance of environment. I'm hearing something about the importance of truth in feedback.

James Glover [00:19:31]:

I'm hearing something about the importance of nurturing as a foundation and something about curiosity and interest in others that have, that have kind of been guiding principles. Talk us to a little bit about where might have been some of those moments, like tested Stuart, where might have there been moments where you're like, ah, all right, now this has happened, I'm never going to be able to see the world in the same way again. When did they come under stress and strain?

Stuart Branch [00:19:58]:

Yeah, good question. I remember Whitbread, who I was working for, gave me an opportunity to go on what they called a grade. Assessment center is when you move from being a general manager to being an area manager. And I was put through the assessment center. Again, many experiences like that, that you get feedback from what you do, so you get assessed, but you get the feedback from the assessment. And there were some behaviors that were quite poor from me and there was some harsh feedback, feedback given. But ultimately I was kind of offered an opportunity of being an area manager, which, which I declined. And it was, it was, I think, rare to decline, but I declined it on the basis that I remember sitting down with my area manager at the time and kind of saying, I, I don't know whether I want to be an area manager because of my innate belief, confidence in people, management and leadership and training and development and competence and capability, or if I want to be an HR professional, but be a good HR professional because of my deep empathy and association with operations.

Stuart Branch [00:21:18]:

And again, that particular area manager is a guy called Colin Mills. Again, I'm not in contact with him today, but we stayed friends For a long time. And again, if I'm not rewriting history, I, I think his response at the time was, the choice is yours, Stuart. I have confidence that you'll be successful in either. So again, you know, there was somebody that was just, that was just kind of saying, I, I, I trust that whichever of those two judgments you'll take, because you'll have taken it and because I'm not going to answer the question for you, because you're going to take the answer, not me, I trust that you'll be successful in either of those. And that's what happened. I, I opted and chose to take the HR professional, which I'm super delighted that I have done today. But I, I have had a hell of a lot of managers, line managers, managing directors, CEOs, etc.

Stuart Branch [00:22:19]:

Kind of accuse me of being a little bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing from an HR point of view, because of my absolute passion on what delivers business results. You know, this, this is not HR for the sake of hr. This is not about, you know, creating work which is about HR policies and processes and procedures unless they're in support of the business agenda, unless they, you know, you can see that kind of tangibility with, with business results. So, yeah, that, that's one of the occasions where it was kind of like, oh, this, this genuinely felt at the time. And I've probably told the story a few times since that I've reinforced the sense of the moment. But, but it was definitely a moment of kind of, okay, which way are you going with your career here? So that's probably been one occasion.

James Glover [00:23:16]:

And there's something here for me, Stuart, listening to you about the kind of, the nature of this choice, but also the feedback that you have gotten in the way you describe it as being the, the kind of the wolf in sheep's clothing, because you're talking about holding attention, holding attention between the kind of the care and the empathy and the nurture and the interest of the human being at the same time as being very clear on outcome, which ultimately feels similar to, to kind of being back in beef meter, which is customer service was the outcome. And we're not moving away from that, that just the business outcomes may have shifted and changed as you have. How have you, how have you held the tension and how do you continue to hold the tension between, you know, things that, that create meaning for you, but may to some degree feel, you know, opposites?

Stuart Branch [00:24:13]:

I am a very, very strong believer that this is not a rehearsal. This is our life. And make of it what you will, but don't waste it. Don't waste it. You know, how many times do we need to read books? How many times do we need to see a YouTube clip of a guru kind of saying to us about when you're on your deathbed, you're not going to look back and kind of wish you'd done X number of more of this. That and the other leadership for me is so fundamentally about practicing what you preach. You know, the old analogy, after all that is said and done, there's a lot more said than done. You know, people, people copy behavior.

Stuart Branch [00:25:01]:

People notice what you do anytime, whether it's Simon Cowell on Briston's Got Britain's Got Talent or whether it is, you know, Trump. There, there is people's talk and there are their actions. And at the end of the day, people judge you on your actions. And whether you're reading that with Stephen Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, whether that's James Glover in one of the leadership programs that we ran together and you're doing that kind of 80 year old self, you know, and I think you and I have talked about it before when, when your children are of a certain age and they play back an image of what they see, you have to recognize that people are judging you on what you do, not what you say. So you know, I going, just linking back, not deliberately, but linking back to what we said a minute ago about kind of Beefeater. One of the outputs of the assessment center was beef eater. Whitbread said to me at the time, you, we, we believe in your career, Stuart. We believe that you can kind of get to where you want to get to.

Stuart Branch [00:26:18]:

But one of the things that's going to hold you back is your academic qualification. So you need to consider that and do something about it. So I said, okay, great. I'd like to do my certificate, my diploma and my mba. Whitbread paid for it, they sponsored me. But I put in hours, hours and hours and hours of learning and development. I remember the Saturdays sitting at my desk in my house studying the concepts of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and you know, all the rest of it. Listening to people mowing their lawn and playing tennis and all the rest of it kind of going, you won't get the result if you don't put the effort in.

Stuart Branch [00:26:59]:

So you know, again, it was about just that fundamental belief that you, you can't cheat life, you can't cheat kind of natural processes of kind of inputs and outputs. So you know, do the hard work. You know, are there ways to buy a degree online these days? And all the rest of it? I'm sure there are, but that's not the learning, that's not the development. That's not where the value is. It's not in the certificate. It's in the ability to articulate to people why these models and concepts are right and why you have to do them. And that, you know, accelerating forward a little bit into my career. It's what given me that confidence to talk truth to power.

Stuart Branch [00:27:52]:

It's what's given me that, again, from the same concept, that you can talk a good job, but if you don't deliver, if you don't follow your words with actions, the credibility isn't there, can't be there. I read a book. I don't know if it's one of the ones that you and I have spoken about before, but there's a great book called Unleashed. And there are two things in the book. One about try to never, ever have a conversation about somebody that you wouldn't have with them. And it goes further than that. It says, when you've tried that and you've seen how difficult it is now, try never to have a conversation with somebody that you haven't already had with them. And how often do we find ourselves talking about, you know, if they do this, if they do well, go and have that conversation, be brave, you know, be that trusted confidant to people.

Stuart Branch [00:28:55]:

You know, if. If you have, you know, it's that. It's that old expression, isn't it, in coaching or feedback? If you genuinely have somebody else's best interest at heart and if you can convince them that you've got their best interest at heart. Why is any conversation a difficult conversation to have?

James Glover [00:29:13]:

Yeah, for sure. There's a kind of really wonderful perspective I've been learning system coaching and constellation work. And there's a really wonderful principle in that work about the difference between being helpful and being useful. And actually the way in which I've made sense of that for myself actually is that, you know, helping somebody is actually about me and for me in reality, whereas usefulness is about them. And for them, am I being useful to somebody else or feeling like I'm being helpful to. To them? And the difference between those two things is massive because actually what you're. What we're talking about here is what's going to have the greatest impact on. On the other person in that context that you're describing.

James Glover [00:30:06]:

Is it going to be useful for that other person that you're having a conversation about with them that they're never going to know and that they can't learn and grow for versus actually you being able to engage in that conversation to some degree or another. What is what, you know, what was the difference there? And even in that conversation what is the useful part of that for them versus the helpful part of that for them? Because one of them is going to feel very self serving to the person and one of them actually might feel quite powerful in nature. Interestingly though, Stuart, when it comes to the, to the question of holding the tension between, between performance and kind of nurture and people focus, I'm going to hold you into that space a little bit further if that's okay. Because all too often, especially within the leadership environment, there's a pressure to default and make, make a choice to one versus the other rather than seeing one almost be an outcome of an investment in the other. And I guess I'm hearing you talk a little bit about role modeling as a way of being able to kind of hold the tension, stand for something, behave and operate in a certain way and the impact of that on others will, will show them what's expected, that that may be able to deliver the outcome. But it feels like there's some other stuff in there that maintains the ability to hold the tension between people and performance. Yeah.

Stuart Branch [00:31:40]:

So I'm, I'm, I don't know if I'm going to answer your question or, or talk about the point you want to talk about, but there's, there's a couple of things that spring to mind when you, when you say that. One is I, I've practiced for a long time being that role model, being that standard bearer. And actually I'm really trying at the moment for several years now and some of it resonates back to the work that we've done that, that sets the bar and it sets the expectation on you and it can kind of disassociate yourself from other people and what, what where my leadership practices now, where I am, where my personal development plan is and I don't mean what's written on the document in the kind of weetabic system. But what, what I'm paying attention to is how do I create the environment for other people to perform as leaders. So I'm really, I'm really trying to almost dial down that standard bearer and dial down that kind of performance standard. It is in me. Sorry, let me, let me just go back. I think this will be helpful when, when I Did my assessment center when I did my MBA and I, and I, you know, got my master's degree.

Stuart Branch [00:33:07]:

I noticed about myself as, as my career stepped up, I noticed about myself. I'm not the smartest guy in the room. Nobody wants the label of thinks they're the smartest guy in the room. But I categorically, categorically, no, I'm not. I notice that my speed of financial assessment isn't as good as almost every CFO that I've worked in. The P and L reading isn't quite as good as the sales guy, the, the gearings on promotional activity and sales volumes and all the rest of it. I'm not as innately gifted, whatever, that's another conversation, another time. But I'm not as my schooling, my development, my environment hasn't meant that I've naturally kind of got to that position.

Stuart Branch [00:34:03]:

Therefore my self talk for a long time was so I will be the most prepped. So again, a number of my line managers, a number of my CEOs, a number of the people that I've worked with have said, you know, if we send out a board pack in advance, I'll bet Stuart's read it more than anyone. I bet that the thoughtfulness about the questions that need to be asked and the observations that are in it are there. So my, my default, my compensating mechanism was about, okay, I'm not the quickest in the moment, so don't try and what's the word?

James Glover [00:34:48]:

Compete.

Stuart Branch [00:34:50]:

Yeah, compete. But also don't try and wing it. Do the prep. Do the prep. Because then you're able to be present. You're not there kind of going, hang on, am I keeping up with the conversation? You're not allowing the little voices in your head to kind of go, you don't know what's going on. You can't keep up in that conversation because you quiet those voices down by doing the work. But again, that all links back to noticing that my default position was right, I need to be better prepped than anyone else.

Stuart Branch [00:35:25]:

I need to have done more work than anyone else. I need to have worked harder than anyone else. So there was, there was that, that kind of element. And that's the bit I'm trying to dial down now and, and, and create an environment where psychological safety where other people can try stuff, other people can pay attention, other people can be curious about body language. Because again, one of the things that I did notice during that is my observation of people was probably quite a lot more advanced than most people around the Board table.

James Glover [00:35:59]:

Yeah. So there's a number of things here going on for me. One is. One is about almost listening to you talk about initially this kind of experience of deficit or less than. I am not as quick as. Or I don't see as. And seeing. Well, actually the compensatory mechanism for that is.

James Glover [00:36:22]:

Well, I can be prepared so I don't have to improvise. I think it's probably. It's not about competition, is it? It's about, you know, improvising. The winging it. You called it. We don't. I don't have to do that in the moment because actually I have the time elsewhere to be able to digest this. It's not that I don't understand.

James Glover [00:36:36]:

It's a kind of a speed situation. So there is an overcoming of something and the importance of the kind of the role modeling bit for a while to set a standard. Interestingly, though, it feels like we're actually still talking about role modeling. You're just role modeling something different. And I'm happy to. Happy to kind of discuss it and debate it to some degree, because role modeling a standard by being the observable benchmark is role modeling of one thing. But creating an environment as a leader still requires the role modeling of behaviors. Right.

James Glover [00:37:12]:

You're just role modeling something different, which is less be like me and more this is how we have to be together. So for me, it feels like you're. You're creating a level of granularity around the difference between what people might need to become aware of, let go of own in. In some instances, but then also ask, well, what is the. The kind of. The consequence here? What is it that I am trying to create? And we come back again to the word of environment. And actually, if I am responsible for and wanting to create an environment, well, then what does that ask of me? Because it's probably different from just, you know, be like me.

Stuart Branch [00:37:56]:

Yeah, I totally agree. And I. Again, I think the point you make about role modeling, aren't we all role modeling all the time anyway? You know, isn't. You know, isn't. Isn't that what they say about leaders? You know, what is your deliberate shadow that you're casting? Because if you don't know it and you can't answer that question, you are creating a shadow that other people are noticing, but you're not being deliberate about it.

James Glover [00:38:27]:

Yeah. And I don't know if you've come across John Amici before and his work. You know, he was NBA basketball player, British guy. So obviously you Know he stands out because he's back in, back in London and he, when he stands, like, I'm not easy to miss, like, I stand out. I am always the biggest person in the room, in any room I go into. But that is what you are to other people too. We're not talking about physical size, which is really obvious in who I am. We're talking about how people react and respond to you because you are a leader.

James Glover [00:39:05]:

You are the giant in the room. So if you were, if you were that physically visible, how might that influence your behavior?

Stuart Branch [00:39:15]:

Absolutely right. Absolutely right. Wow.

James Glover [00:39:18]:

Wallop. That just immediately changes that kind of perception, doesn't it? Of. Well, yeah, well, actually if I was as big as that, I wouldn't necessarily want to be as conspicuous maybe, and so I might do. And all of a sudden you start to think about the ways in which you would react and you can immediately bring that back, go, how, how much do you interrogate your day to day behavior in that same way? Well, no, I don't. Although we go, yeah, what do we need to be asking of ourselves?

Stuart Branch [00:39:45]:

You know, my daughter was a swimmer and you know, tried desperately hard, failed often, but tried desperately hard to be a father to her and a nurturing father to her and not be one of her coaches. But I do remember saying to her often, and you know, have a blend of regret and no regret in saying this, but when you go training, Sarah, if you are not training to swim fast, you are training not to swim fast, you know, turning up and going through the motions. You are training to turn up and go through the motions. You know, it's the purposeful practice, isn't it?

James Glover [00:40:31]:

And so I'm less interested in that bit and more interested in your reflections of those experiences. Now talk to us a little bit about where that kind of, yeah, reflective practice has come from.

Stuart Branch [00:40:44]:

Well, so I said earlier about having an older brother that was much more studious and interested in literature and reading and, you know, asking a lot more curious questions than I did as a child. My mum would have done anything to get me to read a book as a kid and I had no interest. And, and here I stand today with a bookcase full of management, leadership, reflective practice, Buddhism, let your life speak. You know, the book you wish your children, your parents had read and the book you, your children will be pleased you did. And, and again, I, I'm, I am so much more interested now in the models and the concepts and the ideas and the philosophy and, and all of those things. So they, you know, and one of those books is the Reflective Practitioner. I think it was on the reading list of my mba, so that the reflective practitioner is, is where some of that reflection comes from. I had the privilege again.

Stuart Branch [00:41:58]:

You know, one of the things that has been absolutely amazing about my career and my life is the fact that when you hold the title of HR Manager, HR Director, Learning Manager, Head of Leadership Development, etc. You get a lot of organizations that kind of go, hey, we've got this program, we would love you to come and experience it in order that you kind of see it, feel it, touch it, and want to bring it into your organization. So I've had such a privilege of meeting people like you and working with people like you and hearing the ideas behind leadership development, life development, life contribution. And that's been amazing. I met early in my career Peter Honey from Honey and Mumford, the Learning Cycle. And I remember hearing him explain the power of the learning cycle and noticing what your preference is, but also noticing where you don't have a natural preference and the power of paying a little bit of attention to the styles that aren't your natural style to further enhance the learning experience that you go through. Then again, I think on one of the MBA programs there was this kind of double loop learning. So you go through this kind of experience, reflection, theorizing, pragmatist cycle.

Stuart Branch [00:43:24]:

But how often do you kind of create another loop where that cycle is the experience and then you're reflecting on the cycle, you're theorizing about the cycle, you're noticing that there are cycles within cycles. And so you know whether you know. So becoming a student of my own development and becoming a student of the impact that I have on others has been such a noticeable enjoyment out of life really has.

James Glover [00:44:04]:

And so if we take an example of that practice and you put it into place. So the thing that really piqued my curiosity was the language you used about yourself in that reflection with your daughter. And I'm interested in, in what it was about that interaction that made you use that. That language was really emotive about how you feel about that conversation. So how do you make sense of that? What's going on for you when you kind of share that reflection in that way with that kind of emotional connection to it.

Stuart Branch [00:44:39]:

We want the best of everybody around us, don't we? We want everybody to feel joy, be happy, have their own confidence and self worth. And you want that more than any of those nearest and dearest to you. And isn't it, isn't it cruel in life that those nearest and dearest to you are the hardest ones to give that feedback to and the ones that you feel you need to correct more. You know, I only want to create an environment for my children and let them learn everything for themselves. But how often do we know you can't do that or you should do this or that's right, that's wrong. And yeah, so it is that. I'm sure there was an element. Sarah trained 28 hours a week.

Stuart Branch [00:45:37]:

She trained six days a week. The commitment from my wife and I particularly my wife, taking her to training sessions six days a week, three of those days a week with double sessions. So 5am in the morning and 6 till 7:30 at night. So there's an element of. Bloody hell. Do you really want me to do all of this driving cost the family hundreds of pounds and all the rest of it, if you're not doing it seriously. And she did, she, she excelled. She was in my music.

Stuart Branch [00:46:04]:

But there's also, you know, that, that very honest desire, you know, a bit of my father saying to me, you know, you're not going to be allowed to drive the car because you can't be trusted. That, you know, that's the consequence management. That's the consequence life story that you really want to teach people. And sometimes, you know, as a parent, you deliver it a bit too blunt. I don't think. I don't think my father's ever thought he delivered it a bit too blunt for me. But seriously, when it's your daughter swimming and excelling to the extent that she did you. Yeah, when I reflect on it, I just.

Stuart Branch [00:46:42]:

There were times that you just kind of bite your tongue, Stuart, bite your tongue. And then the next minute you've opened your mouth and the words have fallen out and you go, damn, why did I do that again?

James Glover [00:46:52]:

You know what, it's really, really wonderful listening to you is. We're just kind of. We're just surfacing another tension here, aren't we? Between, like that, the power of the truthfulness, but also the power of the nurturing. Like in. And how, how in those moments you were kind of, you were. I can see you like always tap dancing the line. Which foot's going to come down on which side of the line here? Because you're, because kind of wrestling with, with those, with those two perspectives. I think that's the, the kind of, the richness of these conversations is that for all of us, it's so easy to swing to one end of one end of the spectrum rather than the other.

James Glover [00:47:31]:

And there be these kind of either or situations when in actual fact, most of the time it is some degree, a kind of a both and is possible. But that sense of insight and learning and awareness and connection to what's shaping those interactions and ultimately the choice and agency and consequence of, well, what is the, what is the interaction that I want to have? And I think anybody, anybody anywhere can reflect on those moments where they're like, oh, I didn't, didn't quite, didn't quite get that I wanted it to be. But there's got to be a bit of self kindness in here as well, Stuart. Right, which is we're all trying our best all of the time, right, to manage all of those tensions.

Stuart Branch [00:48:16]:

That's exactly the word I was going to use. Again, I honestly can't remember when I learned about it, but that, that little devil and little angel that sit on your shoulders and, and talk to you all the time, whether it's the, the monkey or the chimp paradox, you know what, whatever your recognition of those voices are, you know, you have to listen to your critical friend. They are, they are the voice that talks to you. In fact, I saw something the other day that said you talk to yourself more than anybody else talks to you. Make sure it's kind. And I think that's really, really true. You know, whether, whether you're dieting, whether you're, you know, trying to drive a bit slower and a bit safer, you know, it's about daily practice, isn't it? It's about, it's about trying to do your best every single day. But it's also about recognizing at the end of every day that you didn't get it perfect.

Stuart Branch [00:49:15]:

It's about not chastising yourself, it's about forgiving yourself, but having a true intent to try again and try a bit harder tomorrow. And then the tiny increments of success build up to a pattern of life that's then quite rewarding.

James Glover [00:49:34]:

Yeah, yeah, massively so. Love that. So I got another big question for you, Stuart, which is you literally just talked about confidence and self worth and you mentioned, you know, kind of, of confidence earlier in the conversation too. And you know, a big, a big part of the conversations we have around purpose are the, the connection to feeling valued and feeling a sense of self worth. And so what, what the strongest influences are on your sense of self worth and how did you become aware of them and how do you nurture them?

Stuart Branch [00:50:09]:

Without doubt, family. It goes back to mum and dad and both my grandmothers for no particular reason. But probably on my dad's side, slight, slightly more so that that's where a lot of it came through. It is. The early managers, Bob and Jenny Cook, they were, you know, not the, the best managers in some ways, but in terms of nurturing people. And you asked me earlier whether there were, you know, what were the occasions that some of the people did those things. I, you know, it was in my first week of my first ever career job. So this was with grandma and I remember kind of being in the bar area before opening and kind of Bob walked through and I was standing there a bit lost and, and he walked through and he went, oh, that's awkward, isn't it? And I looked at him and he went, you're there.

Stuart Branch [00:51:10]:

Kind of not too sure what you should be doing. The big boss has just walked through and now you're thinking, oh, I should have been busy. This is really embarrassing, let me tell you. You don't need to feel that way. There's plenty of work to do and if we haven't given you a job to do, it's not your fault, it's ours. That moment. So there's one that is. What's that? 30 something years ago.

Stuart Branch [00:51:34]:

And I remember that because he made me feel. We talk about it all the time. It's how people make you feel or how you make people feel in that moment. I was my biggest self critic and I was kind of beating myself up. That was a tiny conversation, but it's probably stayed with me for 30 odd years.

James Glover [00:51:54]:

Well, you feel seen in that moment. Somebody's literally playing back to you what that internal experience is like. You're like, oh wow, they get me, they get what this is.

Stuart Branch [00:52:03]:

And isn't that an example of self belief? Isn't that an example of self worth? Isn't that that an example of exactly what you said? I'm noticed, I'm valued, I'm appreciated, I'm, I matter.

James Glover [00:52:15]:

Yeah.

Stuart Branch [00:52:16]:

Tiny little incidents.

James Glover [00:52:17]:

Yeah. And so you talk about. I can, I can totally see and understand the kind of the foundation that was laid by your parents and that kind of family environment where you, you have these different perspectives that were brought from your parents, but also that you guys were seen as being individuals and therefore treated as individuals and as a consequence sense, well, I am worthy in my own right. Not because I compare to something else, but because of how I'm invested in for me, you know, that how has that shifted and changed and evolved over time in terms of, you know, you kind of mature as a, as a, as a person in the world, and then you meet somebody and then you become a parent and you continue, you know, kind of on life's journey. What have been the things that you stay really close to that make you feel like you matter?

Stuart Branch [00:53:19]:

There is something spiritual for me. I consider myself to be a Christian and I occasionally go to church. But it, it's, it's not about the religion, it's about the spirit, it's about the belief, it's about the sense of purpose. It's about the impact that you want to have on the world. You know, there are people like Barack Obama or, you know, Mother Teresa or wherever, and we're talking about them X number of years later and, and so on and so forth. And we're not all going to have the opportunity to have those positions, but that doesn't mean that you can't have that same impact on the people that come into your life. And like you were saying earlier, what a privilege that you could have an impact on other people's lives. Why wouldn't you want every one of them to be deliberate, be purposeful, be positive? You know, whether you're in a village, whether you're an executive of a FMCG brand like, like Weetabix, you know, what is it you want people saying about you? And yes, again, spiritually, it could be about that.

Stuart Branch [00:54:42]:

Imagine you're at a funeral and then you realize it's your own. And, you know, what is somebody just about to stand up and say about you? But actually, it's more than that, isn't it? You know, if. If you were down the pub and you overheard somebody mentioning your name, you know, what's that instant reaction that goes in? Is it, Is it, oh, my God, I wonder what they're saying. I wonder what I've done wrong. Or is it. Is it a sense of pride? Isn't it, oh, I wonder if they're talking about, you know, the role I play in the community or what I did from a generosity point of view. You know, every day we have opportunities to make that difference. You know, this James, and I don't feel that you've been kind of fishing for me to say this, but I have an alarm that goes off in my phone every single morning, every single morning at 8, 10, every single day.

Stuart Branch [00:55:33]:

It says, the very best version of me. That alarm's been going off now for 15 years. 15 years. Every single day I have a trigger to say, stuart, be the very best version of yourself. And again, you know the story, but it stupidly took me eight years to realize that I. Because the trigger for that was whatever's happened the night before, the day before. As a leader, as a line manager, as a person within the organization, choose your attitude and choose who you want to be today. It stupidly took me eight years to realize that I could do the reverse of the that and set one at six o' clock every evening and be the very best husband and very best father that I can be.

Stuart Branch [00:56:24]:

But again, just a trigger to be to, to put the issues and the work and the argument over breakfast behind me and turn up and show up as the person. I want people to remember me as I am.

James Glover [00:56:45]:

I'm sat here with a, with a, with a wonderful smile because what you're, what you're really like, just the language of. Why wouldn't you want to have a positive effect? There's something about, it's not about you. It's about the service to others. It's about the contribution that you're making to others. There's something about this wonderful kind of paradox of, of being seen and being valued as an individual and that how that then enables you to be able to see others and value others and want to make a contribution. And you talked about making a difference and then you finished on making a choice. And there's, there's just something really wonderful about that provocation for everybody that's listening Stuart around. You know, when what are the choices that you are making? What are the questions that you're asking of yourself? And then what are the consequences of those, of those, of those choices? Are those choices making a difference anywhere? Are they making a difference to you? Are they making a difference to others? Because the foundational principle of purpose is, it's about.

James Glover [00:57:59]:

It has consequence beyond the self. It's something that has meaningfulness to the self, but consequence to the world beyond the self. And so if we frame everything in that, am I making a choice? And is that making a difference? The output is going to be some level of purpose and purposefulness.

Stuart Branch [00:58:19]:

And James, I never like to sound like I'm regurgitating the leadership books that I've read and the stuff that I've paid attention to, but I'm certain you and many of your, your listeners will have heard of Marianne Williamson, but her expression, you know, her paragraph about our greatest fear is not our greatest darkness is not our fear, but actually our greatest fear is, is our light. You know, what could we have been? You know, who am I to kind of play small? And, and what does that do for other people around me? Actually, that's the point. You know, be a bold light, and that gives other people permission to be a light as well. And that's probably one of the most resonating kind of scripts that I really try and live by.

James Glover [00:59:18]:

Yeah. Amazing. I tell you what, Stuart, that feels like a fitting place for us to pause our conversation. And for anybody out there that hasn't connected in with that, we'll make sure that that's in the show notes. Because it's just such a really powerful, powerful quote that just acknowledges that the opportunity to be able to focus on the light that you can bring feels frightening. But when you do, what it makes possible for yourself and for others is, you know, kind of beyond measure. And, you know, let's. Let's have that ringing in people's ears as they go through the rest of their day.

James Glover [00:59:50]:

Thank you, Stuart, so much for being with us on the Excitable Soul podcast today.

Stuart Branch [00:59:55]:

Thanks, James.

James Glover [00:59:58]:

Massive. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the Excitable Soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs@the excitablesoul.com we look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.