Episode #34 Rebecca Irving
James and Rebecca's Kitchen Table Conversation: Balancing Family, Fitness, and Fulfilment
Welcome to another episode of the Excitable Soul Podcast! I'm your host, James Glover, and today we have a special guest, my younger sister, Rebecca Irving, returning for our first-ever kitchen table conversation.
In this episode, we delve deep into how well-being intersects with purpose, especially as many of us kick off the new year with goals and resolutions. Rebecca and I reflect on the personal challenges and tensions that arise in our quest to balance physical, emotional, and mental health, all while trying to stay true to our sense of purpose.
Expect honest, raw moments as we discuss everything from our positive childhood influences to the struggles of maintaining consistency in our well-being routines.
Whether you're trying to get back on the wagon or seeking ways to redefine success in your personal journey, you'll find plenty of relatable insights and practical advice.
So grab a seat at our virtual kitchen table and join us for an open and heartfelt discussion.
Don't forget to check out the blog on our website for more insights on the why of well-being. Let's dive in!
Links in the episode:
Read the transcript here
James Glover [00:00:09]:
Alrighty. Welcome to the excitable soul podcast. Here, we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we're gonna be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood, and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find the sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you.
James Glover [00:00:44]:
So let's get going, shall we? So, ladies and gents, welcome back to the Excitable Soul podcast. With a difference, we have invited Rebecca Irving, back to the, to the podcast because, well, it's still the most listened to and most paid cost podcast of all of those that we did. Yay. Mainly because I think it was excruciating for both of us and people out there just, you know, enjoyed our pain. And, and we are having today the first of what we're going to call the kitchen table conversations, which is, so Rebecca Irving is actually, you know, my younger sister. I think we covered that off last time around as well. Well, we can debate all of that too. If you wanna bring people into that conversation, no problem.
James Glover [00:01:34]:
And, we grew up around the kitchen table. All of the big family decisions were made around the kitchen table. All major conflicts fought around the kitchen table. Lots of love and pain and moments of significance shared around the kitchen table. And, what what we want to bring into these conversations is just us openly sharing how we're trying to get our brain around some of the things that we're trying to bring to the world, and maybe share some of that thinking with you guys and get some feedback from you on what you're hearing and a little bit of a steer. So it's gonna be, it's gonna be pretty open, and we genuinely have no clue how it's gonna go, do we?
Rebecca Irving [00:02:15]:
Nope. Nope. I've got some feelings, and that's what I'm starting with.
James Glover [00:02:21]:
Yeah. Brilliant. Alright. How are you feeling?
Rebecca Irving [00:02:24]:
I'm feeling defensive. I'm feeling aggressive. I'm feeling, like, I'm gonna call you some names. That's that's my starting point.
James Glover [00:02:33]:
Shit.
James Glover [00:02:37]:
Alright. So so we, we're we we thought it's January 2025, and, and and and people are out there going, right, new year, new start. There's an entire book written by Dan Pink around when, which is the, you know, kind of moments and timing matters for us as human beings and that we can press pause or we can press reset. And we know that many people out there in January are doing exactly that. And we both have been wrestling and continue to wrestle with with with how we look after ourselves, our our well-being. And so, we've written a blog on the website, check that out, plug for the website, about the why of well-being. So where does purpose connect and intersect with well-being? And so we thought we'd start with that today. The irony being that both of us have kind of felt rushed and felt under pressure, have sworn more times than we could count just trying to log on to the platform this morning.
James Glover [00:03:35]:
And the fact that you are angry, the fact that you're triggered probably sums up, like, that January feeling of of well-being to some degree.
James Glover [00:03:48]:
So so where do you think we start with this, Beck? Like, what what does what does January and the kind of a a reset represent to you?
Rebecca Irving [00:03:56]:
Pain, disappointment, failure. No. I mean, I joke, but there is an element of that. Right? So it was interesting because I I went back and I read your blog, just to remind myself of where you might be coming from.
James Glover [00:04:15]:
So already cheating. When we weren't gonna prepare,
James Glover [00:04:19]:
we were just gonna get on already cheating.
Rebecca Irving [00:04:21]:
Start calling me a cheat. This is not to be done into Christmas games. You never look good in that situation, do we? So back up, James.
James Glover [00:04:29]:
Okay. Fair fair fair call.
Rebecca Irving [00:04:31]:
They can they can adjust the volume. Right? And
James Glover [00:04:34]:
I I think I think we need, we need producer John to step into that for sure.
Rebecca Irving [00:04:38]:
No. So interestingly enough, right, I totally take the point. The reason that I'm defensive is ultimately I don't like being on the losing team. I feel as though, like, fundamentally, I can come up with and I and I and I I genuinely don't think that they are excuses. There are times when you have excuses for not doing things, and I obviously have done that in the past a lot. And there are a lot of people that use excuses when actually you just need to make a commitment and go. But my my defensiveness comes, I think, from the fact that we talk a lot about where you put meaning and using your purpose. But if your purpose feels as though it conflicts with putting yourself first, then it makes that it muddies the waters between where you should be applying your time.
James Glover [00:05:28]:
Yeah. I love that.
Rebecca Irving [00:05:29]:
Also, in your, in your blog, you talked about and this is my point to hold on to.
James Glover [00:05:37]:
Going ladies and gentlemen, she's going early. She's playing her cards early. Shit will bust 5 minutes into the podcast.
Rebecca Irving [00:05:44]:
You talked about physical, emotional, and mental. Right? So if I'm winning at 2 of them, then you can't give me shit for not getting to the gym. No. So this is me being that. So, like, realistically, I I feel like I'm fighting for everybody that doesn't look like a hot Jesus like you do.
James Glover [00:06:04]:
Oh, wow. But she was kind
James Glover [00:06:06]:
to me, ladies and gentlemen. Enjoyed.
Rebecca Irving [00:06:09]:
And I hold on to the fact you haven't always. So you you are the turning point. You are a bigger man and a happy bigger man. Like, I have thrown that at you in the past. Like, you were a happy fat man, James. And your response was, well, actually, I wasn't, which was a bit of a, oh, right. Okay. Then there's an element of sort of mental attitude to that, and you made a shift at some point, which I will ask you about.
Rebecca Irving [00:06:34]:
And, obviously, you you had a purposeful moment there where you went, actually, what's my why for doing it? And then it changed for you, like, before everybody's eyes, and you've been on a journey that leads to all my friends fancying you. Like, that's that's where it's gotten you. And, you know, personal fulfillment and all the other stuff. Go back at me. But I feel like every element of my life is a juggle. So work's a massive juggle in all of my jobs. You know, family's a massive juggle. And within all of that, my well-being feels like a massive juggle because there's this fitness thing that I do want to do, especially since feeling crippled since last, last summer, but also making time for myself to listen to stories that aren't based on work because I get joy from that and actually spending proper quality time with my children where I read things that they're excited about, like bedtime isn't a battle.
Rebecca Irving [00:07:47]:
Them you know, my purpose statement is to creatively captivate so that people feel seen and inspired, which means that idea of other people feeling seen requires investment and I feel better for it. So you kind of go, if my well-being is nailing that being in line with that partially, then that also feels conflicted with the time it takes to get my ass to the gym. You know?
James Glover [00:08:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Rebecca Irving [00:08:15]:
Yeah. And then adding on that, not being very well or, you know, something popping up or feeling like me doing it means my husband can't do in it can't do it and whose needs are greater Yeah. And commitments to stuff. So I kind of go, yeah, my defensiveness comes from it's not just excuses. You know? Like, the genuine genuine tensions. And, also, I have this 3 month thing where I do really, really well and hit things hard for 3 months and then it falls apart. And if it falls apart with exercise, it just goes. Right? Like, you no longer fit.
Rebecca Irving [00:08:52]:
You follow your weight back on. I mean, like, really? You know? It just seems harsh.
James Glover [00:08:58]:
I'm a back at pain, disappointment, and failure. Exactly. You're like
Rebecca Irving [00:09:03]:
Yeah. So I talked at you quite a lot there, but that's I mean, I went in hard with my main argument.
James Glover [00:09:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I feel I feel like we're in the courtroom, and you just set out your position, and I'm gonna lay down the gauntlet and walk out. You win. Feel it. Jokes as if.
Rebecca Irving [00:09:20]:
That's right.
James Glover [00:09:21]:
As if. And and and, actually, I I don't feel like you've laid down the gauntlet. I don't feel like this is an argument, and that we're on different sides of the, of the of the argument at all. And, those that are listening and not watching the disappointment of Beck's faces Yeah.
James Glover [00:09:40]:
Is that I think we're not gonna ban it out.
James Glover [00:09:42]:
Are you joking? And I think that's because you've just really eloquently and beautifully articulated the tensions that most adults are are facing in their lives. And that the pull on our time and attention, the pull on our focus, whether that's physical, emotional, or mental, is massive It's massive. Oliver Bergman in his book 4000 Weeks, I think, has done a really, really good job of being able to paint the picture. Like 4000 weeks on average is the number of weeks that you have in your life. And, he's saying that that that often the argument is made that you have, you have these these choices, the these choices and there are big choices and there are little choices, and it's the little choices that get in the way, the big choices, and he's like, total horseshit. Like, it's not like that at all. There are enough big choices to overflow everybody's cup. So if there are enough big choices to flow everybody's cup, you don't even get distracted by the little choices because you can't keep up with the big ones.
James Glover [00:10:44]:
And so that then just makes things even more difficult because there's a cost associated somewhere to some degree. And I I, I was I was listening to, I was listening to a a kind of a well, I wasn't listening actually. I was watching I was watching a clip of Oprah and and, Michelle Obama. And they were just kind of saying, hey. Look. You can have everything you want. You just can't have it all at the same time. Yeah.
James Glover [00:11:19]:
Woah. Yeah. Cool. These are 2 of the, like, most impressive human beings on the planet. And if they like giving out that advice, let's all pay attention. So there is just something about what you're laying out here in terms of the complexity and the difficulty and the tension that people feel. And then what happens if we don't meet our own expectation? Like, disappointment is unmet expectation. And if we're setting up a whole bunch of expectations we can't meet them, then at best it's disappointment.
James Glover [00:11:48]:
In actual fact, it's all the things you described. Pain, failure. You know? And and then it then it becomes just another thing we've got to deal with, which is the voice in our head going, yeah. You can't do it.
Rebecca Irving [00:12:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. You sent me a, a really good a really good podcast last week or 2 weeks ago, and I'm hoping that you're gonna remember who it is. But it was talking about visualizing your future self and and the the studies that have been done that suggest that the the better the connection to your future self self, the more that you invest in that. And I found it fascinating for a couple of reasons. A, for the work that we do at the excitable soul, but also for understanding myself a little bit. And there were there were things in that that I also disagreed with. You know, that if you don't if you if you can't visualize yourself, then you are more likely to cheat.
Rebecca Irving [00:12:48]:
And, yeah, I see you smiling. You keep that comment to yourself, because that's a family trait. So it's gonna have to do with our future self. Anyway, you know, and our life oh, actually, for there's a there's a bit of belief in that. Like, there is being able to see your future self, and then there is the believing you can get there or believing that you could ever be that or or or feeling like you deserve that. There's a whole load of emotional attachment or feelings towards that where you kind of go, I see what the future could be, but I can't visit if I I the steps seem too big. You know? If and at and at the moment, the future self of next week is looming over me more than the future self of 15 years. You know? Like Yeah.
Rebecca Irving [00:13:40]:
But it when it becomes priorities, you know, and I I think back to the the grid that people used to make you do, which is, you know, the what's important, what's not important, what needs to be done now, what can be kicked down the road. Right? So that to help you prioritize on your list of things to do. Well, I see him perpetually in the really important needs to be done now. Right? So and that takes away from this visualizing your future self and what you need to invest in for the future. It's not that I don't think that it's important. Of course, it's important. And I think the turning point for me was when we had a, I think, a harsh conversation when we were on holiday, but true. That's probably why it hurt, because because it was true.
Rebecca Irving [00:14:26]:
So I I found myself in a lot of pain over over the summer. I'd wrongly invested in barefoot shoes or the cheap alternative to barefoot shoes because because my foot hurt. Right? So it started with my foot hurting and thinking that it was because my shoes were too narrow. Took advice from my husband. Always a mistake.
James Glover [00:14:50]:
Renowned podiatrist.
Rebecca Irving [00:14:54]:
Barefoot shoes. I was like, I'll go all in. I bought these barefoot shoes and I wore them constantly and did not do the research which means you do not go straight into doing that because it changes how you stand and uses loads of muscles that you haven't used because I don't walk around barefoot. Never have done. Right? So I found suddenly that now not only did my foot hurt, but the rest of my legs did. And my knees did because they've got dodgy knees. And in my in my enthusiasm to build a wall and do my landscaping in the Easter holidays beforehand, I'd given myself carpal tunnel and something else. So I was like, my wrists hurt.
Rebecca Irving [00:15:34]:
My knees hurt. My my calves hurt, my foot still hurts, and I'm not wearing I'm wearing that red jeans. And everything's well done. We're on holiday, and I was, like, crying, hobbling over to your camp to be like, okay. And your response, lovingly, you'd obviously had enough of me winging, was just like, you don't have to cash yourself. You know, you don't you don't strengthen those things. You don't know that you mentioned eating properly, but it was implied in the general you're not looking after yourself properly. Like, this is and that's when you started talking about part of your purpose for being fit is that you want to be there for your children.
Rebecca Irving [00:16:19]:
You want to be able to be throwing them around, to run alongside them, to do all of those things as I'm there, like, not able to sit down or get up properly. And that was a turning point for me because I was like, I can't kick the can down the road anymore because the effects are now. Like, I can't move properly and therefore join the gym. But sustaining that is I feel like I'm back at the beginning because I made progress and felt like I've made progress, not in my weight. But strength wise, I certainly felt like I had, and I wasn't hurting as much. But then hiccups come right? Like, again, you have to focus on something else because that becomes a priority or you kind of go, actually, by investing in myself, I'm not seeing the kids or I'm not I'm not doing x, y, or zed or I'm getting it ridiculously early to do it. I mean, it's like, you can only sustain that for so long because you can only keep cutting away your sleep for so long, and then you might at the beginning. So it becomes a repetitive cycle.
Rebecca Irving [00:17:22]:
So the dropout rate for people who start going to the gym and do really well is huge because it only takes one snag or one pulled muscle or one whatever you when you are effectively back at square 1.
James Glover [00:17:37]:
I I don't know whether you guys caught it, listeners, but Bec's reframe definition of success was in what she just shared there. And there was a lot in what you just shared, but there's there's a couple of bits that that kinda stuck out for me. So the first thing about, vision of future self, if we start if we start there, vision of future self, I totally agree with you that, dependent on what your vision of the future is, it has an impact on how you feel today. Equally, you have choice over the vision that you create for the future because it's not happened yet. And so there's something in what is it that you're projecting forwards? What is it that you're projecting forwards into? And you're also right in that I've invested in that work really heavily. So I have this very, very clear image of myself 80 years old. My 80 year old self is skiing down the side of a mountain with grandchildren. Now there's a lot of things between now and 80 that might stop that from coming true.
James Glover [00:18:45]:
Right? My children may choose not to have children and or they may not be able to have children, and either of those things is completely fine. The bit that I can control is, should they do that? Do they want to come on holiday with me? Do they still want to be around me? And so there's if that part of the dream is gonna come true, then my relationship with my kids is really, really important. There's an element of this really really critically, which is if I'm skiing down a hill at 80 years old at 80 years old, I need to be physically capable of being able to ski down a hill at 80 years old. Now if you've ever been to a ski resort, you see all of the locals who are 80 plus walking it down the hill because they're physically capable of being able to do that. So that I know is possible. There's another element here which is slightly outside of my control, but I'm becoming more and more committed to doing the bit I can, which is is there gonna be snow in the mountains when I'm 80 years old? Like, genuinely, that dream can't come true if we've totally destroyed the planet. And there's a financial element to that. At 80 years old, do I have the means to be able to take my children and my grandchildren skiing? Or so just as a total aside, I even know where I'm skiing.
James Glover [00:19:59]:
Right? I know where I'm skiing. I know the run that we're doing, and I know where I'm I am on the run-in relation to my grandchildren. They're kicking my ass down the hill. I'm, like, going as hard as I can, and I can't keep up. Like, that's the experience I'm having. And it's a beautiful bright day, and I know like, I can see it. I can see it really clearly.
Rebecca Irving [00:20:15]:
Where am I? Where am I? In your vision, where am I?
James Glover [00:20:19]:
You are, behind me, obviously.
Rebecca Irving [00:20:22]:
Throwing stuff. Right? Yeah.
James Glover [00:20:25]:
Yeah. Eating on me a little bit. And I'm comfortable with that because you're behind. Okay. So, so there's a, there's a there's a bit of that which is, I've I've I used that. Right? I use it, and I have used it. And I've used it for for over 10 years now on cold mornings when I've, like, wanted to get up and do exercise. And I've used it in moments where I have fallen off the wagon massively, and I'm hating on myself.
James Glover [00:20:56]:
And it and it creates a pull creates a pull to make a different choice. It's not the be all and the end all. It's not the only thing, but it definitely helps definitely helps. So there's something in that. There's also then something about consistency in what you're describing. And like, oh, I'm really good for 3 months and then and then it doesn't happen or something happens. And, I can't remember the the quote at all, but the there there's 2 that are whipping around in my head. The first one is that real gains are just made by by incremental shift and change.
James Glover [00:21:28]:
Right? People overestimate what they can do in a year and they underestimate what they can do in a lifetime. That's Warren Buffett. I know that one. And so if you're like, oh, this year, I'm gonna get jacked. And and and actually, you don't and you don't even get close. What you're forgetting is that anything that you've invested in that year could actually help you get to the point where you're incredibly fit and healthy in the later part of your life where you're gonna really struggle. So we're we're human beings. This the second quote, very good, good friend and and colleague, of mine who works in, like, Gaelic love loves Gaelic tradition.
James Glover [00:22:04]:
They're a coach, and they do a huge amount of embody embodiment work. And they they're, like, right into to Gaelic, tradition. And they're brilliant at being able to quote this this kind of ancient wisdom at me all the time. Kerry Cullen, by the way, is the lady you should check out for this. And I'm totally gonna bastardize what she said. But, ultimately, there is there is an old Gaelic saying saying about us, like, falling off the wagon. It's kind of where the the the kind of the origination of the falling off the wagon comes from. And, like, to is to be human.
James Glover [00:22:37]:
We're not gonna get it right all of the time. Like but if you get off, if you fall off, can you get back on? And you don't even have to get back on, and it and, like, go beyond where you were before. You just gotta get back on. Yeah. And every time you fall off, at some point, get back on. Because every time you you do something in any of these areas, whether it's physical, whether it's emotional, whether it's mental, or really way more importantly, spiritual, like, that that's why we do the work around purpose because it's kind of connection to meaning. The more you invest in that, the better off you're gonna be. And really interestingly your definition of success that you kind of gave and I don't know whether you noticed was you talked about being in pain.
James Glover [00:23:19]:
Right? And the amount of pain that you were in, and then you made a change and you were pain free. Right? And the and the bit and the bit that was was like contrary was like, didn't make any difference to my weight, but I was stronger. You're like, well, don't put that in there as a marker because actually you were in pain and then you weren't, like, winning. 100% winning.
Rebecca Irving [00:23:40]:
No. I agree. And I think, like, listening listening to you and listening to you talk about your 80 year old self, it's just kind of apparent that I haven't done enough work on it. I I can't visualize what I want at the moment, And so that isn't a big enough pull, obviously.
James Glover [00:24:04]:
But also just to pull just to come back to another point that you made, like, let's let's come back to the kind of the the work to be done bit because that's quite interesting. But the tensions, right, and the pull of tensions. And you talked about, like, the the kind of the sense of purpose was really about creatively capturing people, and the impact of that is them feeling seen and valued. And, like, inherently then, the focus is outwards. And that's magical because when you do that, people feel the magical effect of you doing it. Yet there's not gonna be enough of that in the world if you don't look after you too. And so there's something about where like, in my in my vision of the future, it doesn't have, you know, to believe in others so that they can believe in themselves and make more things possible. Like, you know, what's my belief in others as I'm flying down the mountain? It's squarely me hoping I can believe in myself and not, like, rupture a hip ligament
James Glover [00:25:02]:
or something because at 80, that's gonna be a bad time.
James Glover [00:25:06]:
But there's something about that future state, which is me having lived that and what's then the outcome of it, And how does it help me hold attention, which I don't get right all the time. Like, this isn't a right versus wrong or doing it versus not doing it conversation, which is why I wanted to say, like, we're not in the courtroom. Like, I I have made progress. Yes. And that is because I've found a way to make it really, really important to me. And also a big part of that is my wife. It's Josephine.
Rebecca Irving [00:25:36]:
Your wife's your better half, isn't she? She's
James Glover [00:25:39]:
Listen. Now stop trying to score points with my wife. Well,
Rebecca Irving [00:25:43]:
I'm crying. Like, it's all true.
James Glover [00:25:46]:
We know who your favorite is. Long.
Rebecca Irving [00:25:50]:
How'd you do, James? As long as you do.
James Glover [00:25:52]:
Yeah. And and I say that because, you know, I don't live in a vacuum, right, I don't live in isolation, and it is important to her too. And we we went through a really rough time when we first became parents about trying to understand what the other person needed, and we got it so wrong, really, really wrong, especially me, doing a whole bunch of things that I thought was useful and important and that, you know, that she needed and valued and none of it was the case. Literally none of it. And and actually the second that we kind of stopped and talked to one another about what do we need to be, who we need to be in the world, like it changed the relationship with a whole bunch of things. And one of those one of those is the kind of the exercise element of of, of the way that we live our lives. That all being said, right, regardless of your situation and circumstance, there is just some physiological facts that we can't get away from, which is your body is the vessel that you exist in this world within. And, it requires some upkeep.
James Glover [00:26:58]:
We can't get away we can't get away from that.
Rebecca Irving [00:27:01]:
Yeah. I feel like I feel like this year or last year was the turning point where my me serving my purpose, me living my purpose started to bite me in the ass. Like Yeah. Like, creatively captivate partially, you know, we talk about, I do that in service of others, but I also I also massively do that to to exercise my brain. Right? The the the emotional and mental side of well-being for me is problem solving. It's creating thing. It's creating a a nicer environment for myself and my family to live in that I can invite other people that I love towards. It's about finding a way of doing it that isn't gonna cost me the price is to get people to come and do fair wardrobes.
Rebecca Irving [00:27:47]:
Right? Because that's my current problem. So so I've always made things, and I get a lot of pleasure out of developing a new skill and doing it well and sitting back and going, I did that. That's really good. Because it's the only time where I praise myself, if I'm being honest, when when I've solved a problem. I've learned something new and I've created something awesome. And now it hurts to do those things. You know? Like, it's realizing that in order to do my purpose, this huge part of my personality, I I need to do some physical stuff. Otherwise, I'm not gonna be able to do it forever.
Rebecca Irving [00:28:31]:
So there is this I'm striving to be this 80 year old version of myself that I clearly need to do some work on, but also just to do the things that I know I get energy from. I can't I can't just take anymore. Like, I have to do something to allow that to happen, and it's been what felt like a right up until now. As far as far as my understanding of myself goes, I am dyslexic. I'm pretty sure I've got other neurodivergencies that are undiagnosed.
James Glover [00:29:08]:
Yeah. Every night. Undisclosed other neurospiciness.
Rebecca Irving [00:29:12]:
Yeah. Exactly. I mean, they affect the people around me. My husband could tell you anyway. But I've always felt like the things I struggle with, that's that I just have to work hard at that to get where society expects me to be to be able to cope. But these things about learning to learn and creating something, that's the payoff. Right? That's how that's the part of me that goes, alright. I'm not great at that stuff that everybody else finds interesting, but this is how I contribute.
Rebecca Irving [00:29:41]:
Look at how I how I can create and do this and what have you, and it's always been a but that's my right.
James Glover [00:29:47]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Irving [00:29:47]:
I struggle at all of this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's kind of going, ah, it's also a privilege. And if I don't if I don't do the exercise, if I don't do the reformer and the pain and the all of that malarkey, I'm not gonna be able to do that. I'm already finding that I'm shying away or I'm stepping back. And that, actually, the lack of the physical is is slowly creeping in on how I look after myself emotionally and mentally because I can't access the stuff that I've always assumed I can do.
James Glover [00:30:24]:
Yeah. Brilliant. And I and I think you're you're you're, highlighting something here which is really critical for us all just to pay attention to and is a real marked distinction between you and I. Like, I am much more of a physical animal, and you are much more of a mental animal. Like, we're we laugh a huge amount at my inability to do anything DIY related. And that and and, and it's a great source of abuse for everybody else in in in my world, but there's an there's an honesty here, which is I don't care. Like, I don't care. I don't wanna do it.
James Glover [00:30:58]:
Like, I don't get you know, when you when you so eloquently and beautifully describe that kind of sense of fulfillment and satisfaction that being able to to build a brick wall around a pond and to be able to kind of landscape your own garden and create something, which, by the way, everybody, is beautiful. Like, it is absolutely beautiful. I don't care. Like, I'm not gonna get the same level of satisfaction and fulfillment from achieving that. Like, it's gonna be it's gonna be draining, like, deeply draining. However, give me the opportunity to go wakeboarding or play hockey or, like, any any like, go go to the gym or, like, any of that, I'm in, like, I'm in. 100% in.
Rebecca Irving [00:31:42]:
That's where I think life is not fair. Sorry to interrupt.
James Glover [00:31:45]:
And what so let me finish. Good lord. Didn't even get there. But there is there is a, there's a reality that we both share. Right? Regardless of those regardless of those two things and the difference between those two things, there's something that we both share, which is, alright. I liked a lot of physicality from a very young age, played a lot of sport, and I've had back surgery. I had back surgeries 6 years ago. Right? So not even 40, got male plates in my back and removed discs.
James Glover [00:32:12]:
So for all of that, you know, let's go do some stuff, I wasn't doing it very well. I had some fairly significant health complications. So Infusing with technique. Right? A 100% all the time. That includes dancing and drinking. But if you, if you think now we're in the same boat, like, if I want to do the things that I love and that I enjoy and that I get energy from, there is a foundational level of physical activity that I need to do in order to be able to function in the world. And for you, there is a foundational level of physical activity that you need to do in the world in order to be able to get to the stuff that you really care about. So for both of us, we're both facing into the same challenge, which is we're human beings, and, like, our our our physicality requires nurture.
Rebecca Irving [00:33:04]:
Yeah. And I don't disagree with all of that, and I have a a massive amount of accountability. But where it's not fair is that you get energy from doing it.
James Glover [00:33:17]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Irving [00:33:18]:
And I don't. I'm just like I'm very much I feel like going to the gym is like donating blood. Right? I the process of donating blood, being stabbed by a needle, that's not pleasant. But you feel really smug afterwards. Like, I saved a life. What did you do today? And I feel somewhat similar when going to the gym. Right? Like, no. Don't enjoy actually doing it.
Rebecca Irving [00:33:45]:
I laugh a lot, but that's
James Glover [00:33:48]:
the great
James Glover [00:33:48]:
pain being expressed.
Rebecca Irving [00:33:50]:
Yeah. It's like Or I can cry.
James Glover [00:33:55]:
Yeah. And
James Glover [00:33:56]:
I'm about other people. I don't know. I need to be awkward, so I'm gonna laugh.
Rebecca Irving [00:33:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I need my tears. I can't dehydrate any more than what, like, the exercise. Yeah. I can't remember my point. But
James Glover [00:34:11]:
The fairness.
James Glover [00:34:12]:
Yeah. Fairness for me.
Rebecca Irving [00:34:13]:
Yeah. It's unfair. So in that sense, like, I think it requires more mental effort, more mental effort for me to go out and do it because I'm not gonna go, yes. Let's go to the gym because I'm not interested. I like afterwards. Went to the gym. I like though how earlier you talked about redefining success. You know? Like, actually, I haven't weighed myself throughout the the I've fallen off the wagon.
Rebecca Irving [00:34:40]:
Let's let's just be honest. Since just before Christmas and getting back onto the wagon has been problematic. But
James Glover [00:34:47]:
It's a it's a really high wagon. Do you know what I mean? Like, to jump on the back of the truck?
Rebecca Irving [00:34:52]:
Like, it's it's probably you or my other There's
James Glover [00:34:54]:
no step there.
Rebecca Irving [00:34:58]:
Yeah. I was doing really, really well, and and I was proud of the fact that I was doing really well. So it's about getting back into that, which is doable. Say it was gonna
James Glover [00:35:10]:
be A 100 percent doable. A 100 percent doable. I think you, you also, you know, kind of touched on something really significant earlier on, which is the kind of the happy fat man face, and the kind of the realities around some of that. Like, yes, I am more of a physical animal than you, but that doesn't mean that I find it all easy because it's not the case. Like, it is I'm really struggling at the moment. I I especially with food, like I know that boundaries are really important to me. Like if I don't have boundaries, the wheels are off, man. Like I can I can consume some stuff? And so so it's really important for me to put boundaries in.
James Glover [00:35:49]:
But whenever I put boundaries in, you come under kind of scrutiny because people are like, why aren't you doing this and why aren't you doing that? And I know that that's not about me, but at the same time, you're still coming under that kind of scrutiny and having to kind of fend that off. Plus the fact, like, I love crisps, I love beer, and I love bread. Like, I could quite happily eat crisps and bread all day every day. And so you try and instigate the boundaries and that that's this, like, when thing. I'm like, right.
James Glover [00:36:14]:
It's Monday. Boom. We're getting back
James Glover [00:36:15]:
on it. Like, I know what this looks like. I know what this requires. I know what this takes. I've been there and I'm ready and I'm in it. And I get to 4 o'clock in the afternoon and I've been amazing and then I go, alright. Fuck that.
Rebecca Irving [00:36:26]:
I'll tell you where's the quiz.
James Glover [00:36:28]:
Yeah. Exactly. Woo hoo.
James Glover [00:36:30]:
And the kids aren't eating prawn cocktail crisps anymore, and so they need eating.
Rebecca Irving [00:36:35]:
Yeah. I mean, it's a waste otherwise.
James Glover [00:36:36]:
Exactly. It's a total waste.
Rebecca Irving [00:36:38]:
Saving the planet, and that is part of saving the planet.
James Glover [00:36:42]:
Yeah. Definitely. Definitely food waste. And any other of the 4,000,000,000 excuses that I can come up with really, really quick. Like, at the moment, the bran flakes are taking up way too much space in the cupboard because the kids are really into their cereals, and we need to be able to kinda get more of the stuff that they like in. So I really need to eat those with lots of raisins
James Glover [00:37:00]:
just before I go to bed.
Rebecca Irving [00:37:03]:
James, if bran flakes and raisins are your guilty pleasure, then we can No.
James Glover [00:37:07]:
No. They're not my guilty pleasure. They're just excess they're just excess, like, feeding. Anyway, I think I think the point I think the point is that, there was a huge period of time huge period of time where I was deeply unhappy and and hadn't fully understood that. And I have a I have a decent sized ego when it comes to how I look. And, you know, you calling me hot Jesus was nice for that ego. Like, my jimp enjoyed that.
Rebecca Irving [00:37:38]:
That's even better.
James Glover [00:37:39]:
You are? Sorry?
Rebecca Irving [00:37:40]:
Hot Jesus.
James Glover [00:37:42]:
Oh, wait. Have you gone back to food? Is it all about cheese now?
Rebecca Irving [00:37:46]:
I love cheese.
James Glover [00:37:47]:
I love cheese.
Rebecca Irving [00:37:50]:
Yeah. Just because I had to go back and
James Glover [00:37:52]:
So that that I remember
Rebecca Irving [00:37:53]:
why you called me hot Jesus.
James Glover [00:37:55]:
I have a I have a, like, I have a healthy ego about how I look for sure and, you know, as a strong ego as anybody else associated with other elements of my life, but one that can be easily over be over be over be over be over be over be over be over be over be overrated by doing the things that make you feel hence the fad bit. And the second that I started to confront some things about who I wanted to be in the world, how I wanted to be in the world, what I just needed to accept about who I was regardless of what other people think, and then be able to just make really, really small steps in making that happen, life changed for me. And, and it swung violently. Right? I went from from being massively overweight to them being in the British rafting team and training twice a day and getting in really great shape, and then it went strength overplayed and that we went from 6 people in a boat to 4 people in a boat. And the other 3 guys that had kind of really secured their spot were solid 15 kilograms lighter than me because they were all canoeists and had no legs. And I've got Beyonce booty. And so, like, it's not even like I could blame the 15 KGs on having broader shoulders and and, you know, bigger biceps to help move the boat. I was it was carrying weight that wasn't healthy.
James Glover [00:39:23]:
So I was like, I need to and if I wanna be in the boat and I wanna be contributing and I really do, I need to be lighter. And that led to a whole bunch of really disordered choices around food that then lasted for a long time. So finding finding the kind of the healthy balance in all of that, purpose has been really important because we, unashamedly, are about people going on an emotional journey and taking them to a place of reflecting on moments that have shaped who they are. And some of those moments aren't happy
James Glover [00:39:58]:
moments. Yeah.
James Glover [00:39:59]:
But they are meaningful moments. There's significance in those moments, and understanding those moments of significance and seeing those moments of significance in the continuum of life choices to now and then in the continuum of what life choices could come in the future, all of a sudden you can start to make sense of them in a different way and you can intentionally connect with them in a different way and it starts to just make more things possible. But you have to feel it. Like, you have to feel where there is alignment or where there are gaps or where there is conscious awareness and intention or where these things are playing out completely unconsciously and, you know, kicking you in the ass. But doing that work and shamelessly committing to do it in a in an emotional way enables the meaning part of purpose to come to the fore, and then it becomes easier to make the contribution. Because then almost every daily choice around action can be in service of it one way or another even if it's not clear. Like, I want to creatively capture. Okay.
James Glover [00:41:01]:
But I need to physically be capable of creating stuff. Okay. What does that now mean for me? Like, the way that you just expressed that and that it felt like a right, and now I realize it's a privilege. Maybe it's maybe that's going too far. Maybe it's not a privilege. Maybe it is just your right, but to access that right maybe requires something different.
Rebecca Irving [00:41:24]:
Yeah. I feel I like feel quite, that was quite a cathartic conversation, really. I definitely came in defensive, and I and I thought about it. So if and if anything, working with the excitable soul work has made me reflective and has made me kind of go, actually like, one of the biggest things that you introduced when we first started sort of unpicking things together was Brene Brown's work about vulnerability, and that was painfully eye opening for me in lots of different ways. And since then, I've kind of gone actually. We all have different armors, and I put this particular armor on. So when I feel defensive, I kind of go, why am I? And I'm far more open to the conversation, and I'm open to telling the stories, and I'm open to to sort of talking about it. So I think, you know, starting off by going I've or even the pre thinking to this conversation and going, why is it that I'm defensive? Those are the questions to ask.
Rebecca Irving [00:42:20]:
You just kind of go. We talk over and over again about purpose not being a stick with which to beat yourself.
James Glover [00:42:26]:
Amen. Preach.
Rebecca Irving [00:42:28]:
And it and it really isn't. And if you feel like you are doing that, then you gotta ask yourself why. Right? Like, what what is it that you are feeling or attaching shame to? Because really nobody else is putting it on you. And if they are, they are misunderstanding what you need or or
James Glover [00:42:46]:
or not. Just don't need to be around. We can get rid of those people.
Rebecca Irving [00:42:50]:
I mean, not always, James. Maybe about yeah. Yeah. So sometimes the conversation is worth happen having, especially with the right person. Because I don't now think I'm gonna go to the gym later because I'm not. But but I might tomorrow, and I have already in my head gone. I know it's routines. If I've got my bag ready on the night before when my alarm at quarter past 5 goes off, then I just have to get up and leave, and it's that.
Rebecca Irving [00:43:18]:
Just get your bag the night before. That's your first step.
James Glover [00:43:22]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Irving [00:43:24]:
Yeah.
James Glover [00:43:25]:
Yeah. It's there's just something really, really straightforward here, which is you've done it. You've done it. You know what it takes. You know what it feels like, and, and therefore, you can do it again. And that's this kind of incremental consistency of I can find my way back, and sometimes finding your way back just requires a bit of a bit of help. I think for everybody out there who's listening, who's in their own head, in their own way, like, what what's the smallest first step towards this? You know, John, John Gomes, my friend and mentor and just, like, wonderful force in the universe just says what's your lifeline to these things? What's the smallest amount possible that you can do on a regular basis that just keeps you connected to it? Because then it just lowers the threshold of resistance to kind of get back into it, and there's genius in that. And maybe we should just maybe we should just pause the conversation here and leave people just reflecting on, yeah, what's your lifeline to whatever you need from a well-being perspective, and who can help you, And what might that mean in terms of you being able to connect with a deeper level of meaning and significance so that it becomes a a force, a driving force for you to get to wherever you need to get to? Thanks, Bec.
Rebecca Irving [00:44:49]:
Thanks, James.
James Glover [00:44:51]:
You rock.
Rebecca Irving [00:44:52]:
I know.
James Glover [00:44:54]:
We we might we might invite you back as long as you don't start with the courtroom of I'm gonna lay out my case and I'm gonna beat your ass in this.
Rebecca Irving [00:45:01]:
No. You can't change who you are, James.
James Glover [00:45:05]:
Yeah. True story. You lost.
James Glover [00:45:11]:
Massive thank you for taking the time to listen to the excitable soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding, and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs at the excitable soul dot com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.