Episode #1: Rebecca Irving
Unveiling the Excitable Soul: Stories of purpose and possibilities
Welcome to the very first Excitable Soul Podcast, where we explore purpose, inspiration, and connecting the dots in our lives. In this special episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with artist and educator, my lifelong collaborator and spirit guide Rebecca Irving, who also happens to be my younger sister!
Together, we delve into her journey of finding purpose and meaning, and how she has embraced the power of taking leaps of faith and finding alternative paths.
Here are three key takeaways from our conversation:
1. There is more than one way: Rebecca shares how she has taken leaps of faith and embraced alternative paths to achieve her goals. She believes there are always multiple ways to approach any situation in life, and finding those unique routes can lead to incredible opportunities.
2. Purpose through connection: Rebecca emphasises the importance of understanding the threads that shape us, and articulating a clear purpose. When we believe in others, they can believe in themselves, and together, we can create more possibilities. Purpose is not about conforming to one set path, but about finding what brings us joy and meaning.
3. The power of stories: Throughout the episode, we explored the impact of sharing our experiences and the stories that have shaped us. Rebecca's own personal journey, from navigating career shifts to finding purpose in supporting others, showcased the transformative power of storytelling. Our stories have the ability to inspire, uplift, and ignite change in ourselves and those around us. We hope you enjoy this first episode of The Excitable Soul Podcast. Stay tuned for more thought-provoking conversations and inspiring stories. And remember, with purpose, anything is possible!
James
Read the transcript here -
James Glover [00:00:09]:
Alrighty. Welcome to the Excitable Soul podcast. Here we are interested in all things purpose. We want to know where and how people find meaning and connection in their lives. In every episode, we are going to be hearing the real life stories of how people have uncovered, understood and unleashed their own unique sense of purpose. Our hope is that we can all learn from the stories and the journeys of our guests so that we can better find a sense of purpose in our own lives. I'm host James Glover, performance coach and purpose nerd. I'm incredibly excited to be exploring these stories with you, so let's get going, shall we? In this podcast, our intention really is to be able to create a bit of a format that you, as our listeners, can come to rely upon in that we're going to frame similar types of questions to everybody that comes on the podcast with us.
James Glover [00:01:07]:
But the stories that they're going to be able to tell around those questions are going to be distinctly individual. They're going to be shaped by the experiences that they've had in their lives, the journey that they've been on, the adventures that they've had, the things that have been distinctly challenging or required overwhelming courage. And so we wanted to kind of really test out these questions in this first podcast. And to do that, I'm joined by artist and educator, my lifelong collaborator and spirit guide, not to mention younger sibling Rebecca Irving. Together, we're going to explore the questions that I intend to put to our guests. You know what they say, it's not fair to ask of others what you're not prepared to do yourself. And now I immediately feel anxious. So let's go.
James Glover [00:01:56]:
So we'll probably start, I think, Beck, if you're happy to know the connecting of the dots, just because that always feels like a way to get to know ourselves and each other in that when we share some of the experiences that have truly shaped who we are in the world. Those moments are really important to us and therefore have meaning and significance. They are meaningful and often they're connected to things that are really important to us. So I'm wondering, are there any particular places that you want to start around connecting the dots, any stories, or do you want to play papers as a stone to see who has to go first?
Rebecca Irving [00:02:45]:
No, I'm going to fire a question at you first and then we'll fight for it later.
James Glover [00:02:50]:
All right, cool.
Rebecca Irving [00:02:51]:
So my first question is going to be who in your life has helped make you the person that you are? And can you give sort of specific examples of where they've really impacted or something they've done has really impacted on you?
James Glover [00:03:07]:
Yeah, you went for the heart with the first question wallet. So we're going to be crying from minute five of this podcast, probably through to the end. Yeah, I think. Wow. Where to begin in answering that question. I think I've been really fortunate and have spent quite a lot of time thinking about the people who have had a positive impact on me and how I want to be able to pay those experiences forward to others. I've benefited basically because of the good fortune and belief from other people. So how can I then provide that in some way, shape or form to others? One of our first guests, John Gomes, is one of those individuals, and his wife, Sally Anne Immeasurably have influenced my life in a number of different ways, predominantly just being able to create a sense of patience and calm in places that are total chaos and learn how to deal with life's multitude of challenges.
James Glover [00:04:18]:
But I don't think I could get away from answering that question straight off the bat without talking about mom and dad.
Rebecca Irving [00:04:24]:
Can't steal my answers, by the way. I shouldn't have asked you first.
James Glover [00:04:28]:
Yeah, I just can't. I think from Dad's perspective, there are probably two things. One, really quick and simple. He has shown and given unwavering love. Unwavering love. I can remember from a really young age, him saying, nothing that you will ever do, you wouldn't be able to do anything that would stop me from loving you. And now, as a parent, I say that to the kids all the time. All the time, yeah.
James Glover [00:05:06]:
He's like, wow. That's kind of the Harry Potter shield of armor that his mum puts on him in that kind of moment that he gets the scar, isn't it? That's what then you then carry through life when you have one of your parents that says something like that to you, so that for sure. And then just the fact that he used to work away a lot when I was really little. And I don't even know how much you remember of him working away a lot because of how old you were, but the fact that when you used to go away, he used to turn around to me and go, right, you're now the man of the house, so I need you to look after your mum and your brother. And then when you came along, your brother and sister and I still remember the feeling of my chest, like, puffing out. Dad says I'm the man of the house.
Rebecca Irving [00:05:58]:
It grew like 10ft.
James Glover [00:06:00]:
Yeah, totally. Obviously, at six, I didn't carry the real responsibility of being the man of the house, but I also carried the responsibility of being the man of the house. And so wanted to be really helpful to Mum all of the time. And then whenever we'd come back and Mum would, you know, Jimbo did this and he did that and he did the other, my chest would go out again. I'd be all right. Cool. So that hard baked a sense of responsibility and wanting to do mom and dad proud, which is both a blessing and a curse. Right? It plays out in lots and lots and lots of really wonderful ways.
James Glover [00:06:41]:
But also, if you overplay a sense of responsibility or overplay wanting to make other people proud, where are some of the places that you can go to in that regard? And I'm sure we can kind of get into that conversation later. So dad for sure, and Mum I don't even know where to begin with being able to describe the impact that Mum has had and shaping who I feel I am in the world, other than it was total and complete backing. Total and complete support. I don't know whether you noticed this, and Mum will be like, we're going to get in trouble straight off the bat of the first episode, if they listen. But I was about 30 before I realized that Mum never really says I love you on the phone. I just always assumed that she did and it turns out she really doesn't.
Rebecca Irving [00:07:36]:
Did you hear Joseph talking about this when we met up?
James Glover [00:07:41]:
So Joe's, our brother, he's kind of in between the two of us, he'd.
Rebecca Irving [00:07:47]:
Phoned Mum and Mum thought it was quite an OD phone call because right off the bat he'd gone, do you know what, Mum? I really love you. I really love you loads. And Mum was like, well, that's nice, son. And then he was like, yes, I win. And he was in the car with somebody and he'd bet them that Mum wouldn't respond with I love you. They'd had this conversation and Mum had reprimanded him correctly for betting about these things. And then Mum phoned back immediately afterwards to go, I really love you, Sard. So they'd have this whole conversation based on the fact yeah, it's important to say, isn't it, that Mum shows it in every fiber of her being, in everything that she does, every act.
James Glover [00:08:29]:
Every act. She is the living embodiment of deeds, not words. The living embodiment of deeds, not words. Like, I remember being under eight football and there was a kid in the group who was looking to have a bit of a rumble with me and my best friend Sam. And Mum was coming to pick us up and she saw it from the top of the hill and what she was witnessing was obviously she wasn't making her too happy. And then the kid's dad got involved because he was the coach and he was drawing out lines for us to have some kind of boxing match. And my mom was like, Whoa. So she came down.
James Glover [00:09:12]:
I still have this image of her coming down off the hill, you know, in The Lord of the Rings, right in the second Lord of the Rings movie, where they're kind of behind that wall in that castle and gandalf turns up on the morning of, like the fifth I look to the sun on the morning of the fifth day or he says something along those lines and the sun rises and over the hill come like thousands of horsemen and they come charging down the hill. That's the image I have of Mum coming down the hill to just take this guy out, take this immediately, just.
Rebecca Irving [00:09:47]:
Sorry to interrupt, but immediately my head goes to Harry Potter and the finals, not my daughter. You allowed to swear on this, but that would be my image of Mum at that moment. Yeah, go for it.
James Glover [00:10:00]:
Sorry, but it's things like that, like, springing to our defense, but also it was never unjustified in terms of springing to our defense. So I got my first ever after school detention for not doing my maths homework. And Miss Brown, who continues to be a big influence in our life, some 35 years after leaving school, she used to give after school detentions out, because if you didn't do your homework, that was the outcome. And there had been a reason why I hadn't done it. And I was 100% convinced that Mum was going to vindicate me in this wrongdoing and injustice of me getting my first ever after school detention. So I go home, Mum writes this note, hands me this note. I go in the next day and I can't wait, can't wait to give it to the teacher, hand it over, she reads it, this massive smile comes on her face and I'm immediately going, oh, shit, something is awry here. Turns out Mum had written a letter going, if you want to keep James after school every night, you do.
James Glover [00:10:59]:
So he's got some lessons to learn about how he needs to do his homework. Devastated. Totally devastated. But that's how she was able to ensure that we knew I'm there for the proper stuff 100%. But you step out of line with teachers, you're going to get put back in line pretty quick.
Rebecca Irving [00:11:18]:
Yeah, well, that's about helping shape it like how you walk a fine line in life, isn't it? I am confident in the decisions that I make, because when I'm doing the right thing, I know that I've got the backing and if I do the wrong thing, then I'm still loved and I'm supported, but I will face the consequences.
James Glover [00:11:35]:
Totally. I don't know. There are thousands of Eve Glover stories that we can tell, but it's just the love in every act. And now that she's a grandparent, it's like she's turned the volume up to ten. And where there is any kind of balance with us, with the kind of the love and the care and the opportunity, there is nothing but love and care and opportunity with the kids. And we know that because the amount of pombeares they get through and the amount of screen time they have, none of that would have been possible for us at all. But, yeah, that's where she's gone to. So, yeah, I can't go beyond those guys, really, if I'm completely honest.
James Glover [00:12:19]:
But same question for you. Maybe it's not a person that's helped shape maybe there was a kind of a pivotal moment in your life where you realized nothing would ever be the same again.
Rebecca Irving [00:12:37]:
I've got two different answers to those so quickly on the people, it would have to be the same and for similar reasons, really. So for dad, I would have quoted exactly the same thing and I say the same thing to my children and they use that as a barometer. So when they're in trouble, they'll go, So, Mum, you know when you say, there's nothing I could ever do to make you stop loving me, you're like, what have you done? But yes. So my children use it in a slightly different way. But with dad, it was also things like when you are so distraught as a child, so upset, so sort of overcome with frustration and anger as I was as a little redheaded child with sort of like tears streaming. Down my face and snot and you're like, and can't talk. Then dad would always say, and probably still would say as and when I get into those states as an adult can't understand what you're saying when you're talking like that. You've got to calm down for me to be able to hear you.
Rebecca Irving [00:13:39]:
And that was always the thing. It was never, I'll calm down or you're overreacting or stop that silly noise or whatever. It was always, I need to hear you. You need to calm down so I can help you, so that we can communicate. So that's a huge thing for me, that it was always, I will be there and we'll get through it together. You need to calm down so that we can do this logically. And that is dad to a T. So dad sort of is wise, he's clever, he's a problem solver and he does that quite introvertedly.
Rebecca Irving [00:14:12]:
So he's quiet a lot of the time.
James Glover [00:14:14]:
Owl in spirit animal, isn't he? Couldn't have been more perfect when we did that.
Rebecca Irving [00:14:18]:
As opposed to, what are you doing?
James Glover [00:14:20]:
Thank you for bringing that to the attention.
Rebecca Irving [00:14:23]:
Sorry, but you led right into that. Another story for another time.
James Glover [00:14:27]:
No, I'm going to own it, because that's really important. And also I led with my chin. So there's an important lesson in this process. Rebecca is quicker than you are. Remember that. Yes. So it's probably about three, no, maybe more four years ago now, because it was Easter time. I found this spirit animal questionnaire online.
James Glover [00:14:51]:
No idea how that became a thing, but for a couple of days it really was and I completed it and I was really excited to see what kind of spirit animal I would be. And turns out I well, let's just set the scene.
Rebecca Irving [00:15:08]:
Sorry. With Mum being a protective bear and me being obviously a feisty tiger. And your wife was something cool as well, wasn't she? And then what were you?
James Glover [00:15:19]:
She was sea turtle and dad was an wise owl. The problem was all of these things were absolutely nailed on. Like, all the characteristics, like the way in which we'd all answered the questionnaire. It was brilliant, really brilliant. Which made it all the more difficult for me to own the fact that I'm a freaking butterfly. My spirit animal is a butterfly.
Rebecca Irving [00:15:44]:
It was a good day. It was such a good day. Anyway, back to my story.
James Glover [00:15:50]:
So dad being wise.
Rebecca Irving [00:15:52]:
Yeah, and introverted. So it doesn't matter what it is. Like, if something big happened, we've talked about Mum always being there. Like any situation, she'll be there to defend and to back you up and to lead the way. And you wheel dad out. He's the big gun, we've gone too far now I'm bringing Tony out, kind of thing. But actually dad sort of processes things quite quietly or if he's figuring out how to fix something or to make something or anything at all. And he hums to himself.
Rebecca Irving [00:16:23]:
So he'll sort of like, what if I yes, that would work. And he sort of talks internally and then he'll go away and do it. Or he'll come out with the most profound thing. Or you'll be kind of like, yes, that is the solution to the problem. Or he'll ask just the right question to sort of elicit the right response. So I think for him, there is real gravitas in knowing what you're talking about and for taking the time to breathe and to turn around and go, this is the situation in and this is the right way forward. And taking in the views of the people around you is huge. And that idea that our opinions mattered.
James Glover [00:17:04]:
From a very small yeah, massively. Always sat around the table, always felt a valued member at the table. You mattered.
Rebecca Irving [00:17:15]:
Yeah, absolutely. And they would talk about the news of the day or some sort of issue that was happening and they would explain it and they would be very passionate about their views. It wasn't like they held back on that.
James Glover [00:17:24]:
They didn't opposing views.
Rebecca Irving [00:17:28]:
But then it would be like, well, what do you think? And you were never made to feel silly or feel like you didn't know what you were talking about. You would put your views out and then they would question it and challenge it. And it was very much so, actually. It's good to ask questions, it's good to find out all of those things. And then when he's doing something, he does it well and he'll go, God, you're good, Glover. In the same way that he goes, God, you're good looking, Glover, and all that kind of stuff.
James Glover [00:17:48]:
Just from Clear for everybody listening and watching, dad is referring to himself in those moments, not the person that may be doing something absolutely.
Rebecca Irving [00:17:56]:
Every time. And then for Mum, same thing. I like to think I've joked in the past about being boudica. I am boudica. Long, flowing, red hair, ready to go into battle to do justice. But realistically, Mum's Boudica and Mum wouldn't need to go and rally who we have. History doesn't remember I'm in the back. She wouldn't even need to go and rally the other troops.
Rebecca Irving [00:18:27]:
She could take on the Romans and defeat them all by herself and there would be no coming back from it. The Romans would be gone.
James Glover [00:18:33]:
Enough doubt.
Rebecca Irving [00:18:35]:
But I think it's her passion for people. So we talked about her defending us. It's not family, it's anybody. She will stand in front of buses to protect anybody because she's got a fierce sense of what's right and what's just, and she loves people. So listening to her talk about work is huge for me. So sat around the dinner table and she would be talking about the kid that everyone's given up on, that they all get sent to Mrs. Glover or with severe special needs who frightens the people around them. And she would talk with such love and such joy about how she'd done whatever she'd done to win them round and that they were happy when they were sent to her.
Rebecca Irving [00:19:16]:
Because although the mess in about stopped, they knew that they were seen and that they were cared for and that they could move forward. And her talking about some of her lessons, so there's a distinct I won't go into it in full detail, but she was offsteaded once and she took a risk with a lesson that she did and it could have gone wrong on so many different levels in so many different ways, but she nailed it. And even the kids were like, oh my gosh. And even the inspector was like, let me read out my notes. And it was this sort of like discovery thing. And her pride not in having done well in ofsted could have been there or not, but we won't go into that either. But it was that passion for what she did.
James Glover [00:19:55]:
I love the story that she tells in her first job. So she's from Leeds, she first in the family to go to university in Newcastle, gets a job in Nottingham, which is where she meets dad and they're deciding to go on holiday. So she's out on a trip with the kids and she just dives into a travel agent to pick up a whole load of brochures, which are free, but the kids didn't know that. So she comes walking out with all of these brochures and this class full of inner city Nottingham kids were going, Miss, miss, let's go, let's go. We've got you, we've got you. Let's go, let's go. And she's like, what? What's going on? What's going on? They're like, we saw you take them. It's okay, we won't tell, but we've got to go.
Rebecca Irving [00:20:38]:
We've got you back, Miss Moore, we've got you back.
James Glover [00:20:41]:
She was, are these are free? And they were like, oh, but you know, deep down, like, she couldn't have been prouder that those kids would totally have helped her rob that shop. And as I kind of said at the beginning, really, it's one thing to be able to discover and understand your sense of purpose, but that probably then throws up and we know it does throw up a whole load of questions for people in terms of where have I been living in alignment with what's meaningful to me and making a contribution. Or actually where are there some really significant gaps? And I guess what we're talking about when we talk about meaning from the inside out is when we truly start to understand our own sense of self worth, where we start to feel enough that we are not living to or being defined by necessarily the expectations of what's outside. And then working in. We're starting to hold our own sense of value and working from the inside out. So what do you reckon? Where should we start bec?
Rebecca Irving [00:21:51]:
I think now might be a good time to actually share what your purpose statement?
James Glover [00:21:56]:
Nice. Yes. I think it's important for people to recognize that there is a belief we have at the excitable soul, which is your purpose statement is kind of the bit of the iceberg that's above the waterline. It's kind of the tip of the iceberg. It's the bit that you can see, it's the bit that you can acknowledge that feels tangible, but actually it represents everything that's below the waterline. So it requires work, it requires a level of investment. To understand the threads of your life, be able to pull those threads to the fore and then start to articulate something that feels really clear, that creates a level of confidence, that creates a level of focus, that creates a level of direction, creates a level of courage, creates a level of belief. And for both of us, we are continuing to kind of iterate the words, but the sense is kind of nailed.
James Glover [00:22:53]:
And so for me, my purpose is to believe in others so that they can believe in themselves and make more things possible in their lives. And that fundamentally comes from the fact that I have a colossal amount of energy. And what I've learned is if I'm able to focus that energy on others, they're able to do things that they didn't think that they could do before. And I've had to massively learn when I've been over focusing that energy and it's not served me or the person that I've been working with. But that's part of understanding how you express your purpose through what you do. But yeah, that's my purpose. What about you?
Rebecca Irving [00:23:46]:
I've been working on mine. And it's important to say that the stories that we were sharing before, that's below the tip of the iceberg, isn't it? All of those things are what kind of help make it so mine, which I think I'm still working on, but as so far as we are at the moment is to be passionately, creative, in order to captivate and inspire others to see and to feel seen.
James Glover [00:24:11]:
How do you feel saying that out loud? I feel a sense of real confidence in the language that's really starting to shape around this for you. But how do you feel saying out.
Rebecca Irving [00:24:24]:
Loud, I feel better now than when we first came up with it. This is all a learning curve for me and I felt like it was a bit grand to start off with. But actually what I've found, I don't know whether you guys have siblings, but when your sibling turns out to be right about stuff, it's quite frustrating, but also exciting at the same time. So I found, since doing this work with James, that everything proves it to be right. So when things have gone well, I'm like, yes. And I'm like, oh, actually, that's totally aligned with my purpose, so that must be right. And then when things have gone wrong and I'm not bothered about it, I kind of go, well, actually, it's got nothing to do with my purpose statement. So maybe actually this is fundamentally who I am or whatever.
Rebecca Irving [00:25:08]:
So, yeah, it's sitting with me better now than maybe when we first did. It's a confidence in it and it's road testing it in different situations to see whether actually that's true or not.
James Glover [00:25:19]:
And I really appreciate you sharing that, because when something is deeply true, owning it can be hard. And that's because it requires a level of truth and confidence and courage. And actually, it's Brene Brown's great saying, isn't it? That vulnerability sounds like truth and looks like courage. And so you're saying your purpose statement out loud and what you feel is vulnerable, deeply vulnerable. I'm exposed here's my soul and actually what other people experience is truth and courage. Truth and courage, yeah. So let's bring more truth and courage. That's what we're after.
James Glover [00:26:08]:
And all hell Brene Brown, for she is an overlord.
Rebecca Irving [00:26:16]:
I've found a lot of learning about myself through getting to know you and doing this work. There's been a lot of self evaluation and Brene Brown cuts me deep with her truths, cuts me really deep. So I've got a question for you then, James. So how do you make sense of what matters to you? So you've got this statement that you have developed over time and that that is a good tool that we'll talk about as we move forward to help make decisions. But on sort of a day to day basis, as things come flying at you or your experience in the world, how do you make sense of what matters to you?
James Glover [00:26:56]:
Yeah, and I think with all of these things, there are so many different threads to it, there are so many different elements to it. I think where I'm really aligned to my sense of purpose and where I understand my sense of self worth and meaning coming from the inside out comes from a really strong trait of mums where almost anything is possible. There's more than one way to do anything, and that can be like anything. I remember that all the kids at school had these Reebok pumps, like back in the early ninety s, and they all were wearing the same Reebok pumps and they were all a fortune. And we didn't have a fortune, but this is Mum. So she just went about figuring out another way of being able to do it. And guess who got some Reebok pumps? I did. One was slightly a different shade of white than the other because it had been on display.
James Glover [00:27:52]:
They weren't the same Reebok pumps as everybody else's. They were cooler than everybody else's. In my opinion. They were cooler than everybody else's. It was like one of those kind of total rock star moments. So I opened up this box going, oh my God. I'm like, how did this happen? How did this happen? It's because she just understood that there's more than one way to do anything. And the example of that, that's a really tangible childhood example.
James Glover [00:28:17]:
But the same things are true. Even kind of day to day with Mum on anything. There is no nail down that is just wrong unless we're talking politics to some degree. But everything is about possibility. And so for me, the way that becomes really meaningful is when I think about the future and I think about what's possible. It's full of opportunity. I see the world through opportunity and possibility, and I entirely have her to thank for that. Seeing the world without limitation is wonderful.
James Glover [00:28:59]:
It's harsh when the real world slaps you down and goes, yeah, fool. There are some actual boundaries to the way the world works. And it's not just opportunity and possibility, there's some reality. And John, who I mentioned before, has been one of the greatest proponents in my life of realistic optimism. Please, James. Realistic optimism as I go after Everest and achieve the Peak District. Progress is progress. So what does that mean in terms of meaningfulness to me? Or where do I find meaning and self worth? It means that I will challenge myself to find different ways to be able to achieve the things that I want to achieve.
James Glover [00:29:38]:
I played a lot of hockey as a kid, and it would have been a dream to represent Great Britain and go to the Olympics. I'm not good enough at hockey to play for Great Britain and go to the Olympics, but this kind of sense of pride at representing my nation at such a global sporting event was something that kind of was within me, and I found a different way of doing it. I went to the Olympics, but that was supporting actually talented athletes. But then I also got to go to my own World Championships and win World Championship medals by finding a sport that nobody else competed. In and getting to go and be really good at that, which was white war rafting. And I play it down and I'm kind of overplaying the humility bit because there were professional teams and it was really, really hard for us to achieve what we did and it was absolutely amazing. But there's always more than one way. So I find meaning in possibility, I find meaning in opportunity.
James Glover [00:30:36]:
And if I ever feel backed into a corner, if I ever feel railroaded, if I ever feel limited, then I feel a deep disconnection with what's important and what matters to me. And I genuinely have found a huge amount of self worth in being able to find a different route, being able to go a different way. And when I look back on the journey of getting to where I am now, there are kind of multiple steps and maybe I'll share a bit of that in the leaps of faith, where I arrived in the same position as other people and the route I took was completely different. So nobody can tell me that there is one way of doing anything, they just can't.
Rebecca Irving [00:31:17]:
I think listening to you say that, I've seen you do that firsthand and you are massively underplaying the whitewater rafting thing because you've forged boys from the.
James Glover [00:31:28]:
Team are going to cut me off.
Rebecca Irving [00:31:30]:
Absolutely. You've forged a path for lots of other people and funding and various different things happening from them, and we're all very proud of you for having done that, but also, you don't just do that for yourself. I think that's part of your role. You've made a career out of it, but you've always done that for the people around you that you care for. Like, the amount of times that I was at university and you were like, so you make the art, I'm going to be your dealer or I'll get you the shows, we'll be famous, we'll sell your art for millions of pounds and we'll do that and you're like, yeah, that's not going to happen. But I love the enthusiasm, but it was like that with everything. I do love the enthusiasm. I like you with hockey was not good to serve my work for millions of parents, but it was really nice that you believed in me.
Rebecca Irving [00:32:29]:
But it's the same for everything, isn't it? You just kind of go, I know I've got a support network around me and you're a massive part of that, of go for it, take the leap to do this. You are genuinely passionately believe that you can do anything. And I have that in my ear with you all the time, with whatever opportunities there are. A lot of people don't have that at all. So to have that in your life, it's a privilege. So I kind of identify with what you're saying there, being on the receiving end of it as well and I.
James Glover [00:33:01]:
Think we should have done it. It was just about finding the right shows and I was leaning on somebody else I was leaning on somebody else to help me with that and it didn't come through. So, you know what? I stand by what was possible.
Rebecca Irving [00:33:13]:
Yeah. How is your mortgage?
James Glover [00:33:17]:
Did we make millions?
Rebecca Irving [00:33:18]:
No, we did not. Yeah.
James Glover [00:33:25]:
What about you? When did you become really aware of the kind of the strongest influences on your sense of self worth and how do you make sense of it and where are things serving you well and not?
Rebecca Irving [00:33:40]:
I think I contrast with you quite a bit, actually, in my response to this question, I make sense of what matters to me with obsessive gut feeling. So it's a lot about how it feels. I feel really uncomfortable that maybe I've upset that person, or I feel as though they think I haven't seen them or that they feel like I haven't given that they aren't loved because I've forgotten to message about something or I go for a job and I don't feel like I've presented myself properly. Then that gut reaction is I haven't portrayed myself properly. Not I'm disappointed because I haven't done well, but I haven't explained myself. I haven't expressed myself or shown myself in the same way that if something goes well, it's that joyous feeling of look at their reactions. Or that kid nailed that. Or I've made something that is so deeply, so deeply connected to the person I've made it for that they kind of go, It's me.
Rebecca Irving [00:34:44]:
And I go it is you. I tried for it to be you. I nailed it because you've felt seen and I'm using the language that's in my purpose statement. I never sort of made those connections before, but I have always gone and got instinct. Yeah, it's me kind of going I feel like a lot of the time it's like juggling an awful lot of balls, but that's because they're the things that are important to me. You just kind of go, you've got to let you don't have to be there for every one of those occasions or you don't have to work so hard at that. Not all of your lessons need to be of that standard or whatever, but actually the knock on effect to the people around me by me doing those things, that is what matters to me. I don't ever want not to be there if there's an open evening for my kids or if it's fancy dress.
Rebecca Irving [00:35:35]:
It doesn't have to be the best fancy dress thing, but I want them to have been represented or whatever, because that's contributing to their self worth. And that's a huge part of sort of what makes me tick. And yeah, it's gut instinct. And for me, the whole self worth thing goes back to that light bulb being switched on and knowing when my internal monologue is on my side or whether it's against me. And that's huge. Like my brain goes a million miles an hour. And I don't know whether that's partially because of the Dyslexia or just who I am, or I've got a multitude of other things I've been diagnosed with, but my brain goes million miles an hour and that can be brilliant. That is part of the reason why I'm so creative, because I'm going, this could be the solution, or that could be the solution, or Wouldn't it be great if I did this? But when that goes into a negative spiral, that can also be very damaging.
Rebecca Irving [00:36:26]:
So it's that sort of for me now, it's the self awareness. It's kind of like, what am I saying? Is that a true reflection of what's going on? Do I need a bit of Jimbo's optimism? But that's where I joke about that. But that's where I would phone you or I would speak to Russ or I would speak to Mum and dad, because you are my solid sounding guards, where you kind of go, my gut instinct doesn't necessarily feel right, so I need to talk to somebody who knows me deeply for that to happen.
James Glover [00:36:54]:
What about you talked about that kind of inner voice and where it's on your side? How does it affect your self worth when it's not on your side?
Rebecca Irving [00:37:04]:
Massively. But then it would to anybody. It's the voice that speaks loudest, isn't it? You can be saying lovely things to me like, let's make millions and let's do whatever, but if you're in a head going, you're not good enough, or he's just your brother, because sometimes that is how it works. And it's true, the brother bit.
James Glover [00:37:28]:
Sorry, not the good enough bit. Wow.
Rebecca Irving [00:37:30]:
Yeah. So in that sense, and now I'm aware of it, so you just kind of go, Hang on a second, pipe down in a Irving and turn it around. And now that you've got your purpose statement as well, you can kind of go, actually boil it down. Was that actually as bad as you think it was? Or what were the good things that came out of that? Or you're really nervous about that, or how that landed, but actually, why are you what is it that you're actually worried about here? And a lot of sort of Brene Brown's prompts and what she talks about armor and various things like that. I'm so very aware of things like that now as well. When I say that my Dyslexia is one of my biggest strengths and a big weakness, I feel like the way that my brain works, it's not just being Dyslexic, it can make you incredibly on point with what you say. But that can be cutting as well, can't it? Because you can say just the right things that are hurtful, how you do it to other people. Just to point out, I'm not really cutting with other people, it's just inside my head, I'm a nice person.
Rebecca Irving [00:38:40]:
I am.
James Glover [00:38:41]:
But I think that's the significance of it, isn't it, is that we say things to ourself that we would never dream of saying to somebody else. And so then you are attacker and victim in equal measure. So you lose twice in those scenarios. And I think this opportunity for all of us to discover and align with a sense of purpose is that you're talking about intuition. There's some really brilliant science around the power of intuition. Like your cognitive brain has the capacity to hold a finite amount of things like your short term memory or your working memory. You're talking about anywhere between one and 40 50 things in those cognitive processes in your brain. Yet your body is receiving millions of bits of information every second and feeding that to your brain.
James Glover [00:39:38]:
So which one has more data? I'm a Dyslexic and I understand that math one far outweighs the other. And so the greater level of insight and intuition we have, it's just about interpreting a different and probably more powerful form of data. And where purpose is critical is emotional conviction. It aligns intellectual clarity with emotional conviction. And when you put those two things side by side and focus them in the same direction, like the power that that has for us to be able to go shut the up voice because this conversation has no bearing on what matters here or what is it that.
Rebecca Irving [00:40:24]:
You'Re trying to protect yourself?
James Glover [00:40:25]:
Nice way, better question.
Rebecca Irving [00:40:28]:
Because it comes from something, doesn't it? It comes from not wanting to be vulnerable. And why is that? Because it could have a great outcome and you're frightened of that? Or is it because you've had a really bad experience and you don't want to go down that rabbit hole again, it's good intentioned even though it comes out not very nice sometimes. But that's just the kind of house.
James Glover [00:40:53]:
I'm kind of conscious of our time and I think we should dive into the third and final part here around leaps of faith. This is really where some people have a defined and articulated sense of purpose and for others it's there and it's guiding us. But we might not have wrapped words around it, but ultimately it's still the same sense of purpose. And what we're interested in here is where what's meaningful to you has guided your choices and you've done things that you didn't necessarily think that you could or would be possible. And actually the outcome created a leap forward for you. I've got to be honest of all of the steps. I'm a purpose geek so I love all of this. I love everything that sits within it.
James Glover [00:41:47]:
But it speaks to what's possible in me and the opportunity, the idea of taking leaps of faith that are founded on something that has this level of kind of conviction and allows us to go into the unknown, like hack uncertainty and go into the unknown. That's where I get really giddy about the possibility of purpose and the impact that it has on people's lives. So, yeah, where should we kick off in this book?
Rebecca Irving [00:42:16]:
I think that you have lots of tangible examples of where you've genuinely leapt forward through taking leaps of faith, and it would be good to share some of those to start off with. So I'm going to ask you the question, so when were moments of your greatest courage in the choices that you've made about the life that you wanted to lead and where has it taken you?
James Glover [00:42:44]:
It's interesting because there are kind of layers to this and some of the tangible ones feel like big and big shifts, but some of the smaller ones that are more kind of emotive might not have created as big, obvious shift, but were way harder, way harder to kind of come to terms with. So I think there are just a couple of really simple moments in time where feeling that sense of more is possible. Let's go. After it came, I think one had a couple of career moments that have just helped me take steps that I didn't think were possible. One is going from being an administrator in the national governing body, just kind of typing in data, to applying for a job at the English Institute of Sport, which has just become UK Sports Institute, I believe. I hope I got that right, because it literally changed last week. Who work with Olympic and Paralympic athletes and coaches to get them to all major competitions. They're a phenomenal organization that has just literally, literally grown its impact over the course of the last 20 years.
James Glover [00:44:03]:
And so we're talking 15 plus years ago when I was kind of going through this process, they were looking for a services manager and I remember reading the thing going, OOH, I don't know anything about this organization. OOH, they sound really cool. One of the prerequisites is I have a sports science degree. Just cool. I can cross that one. They're definitely looking for somebody more experienced than me, but nobody wants to work in sport more than I do, so let's go. I had no right to apply for that job. None.
James Glover [00:44:34]:
I certainly had no right for anybody to read that application. But I naively just poured my heart into the covering letter. And this was back in the day when people read covering letters, and it wasn't just all automated. I got an interview barking out, got an interview. What do I do now? So I went and I gave it my best shot. And at the end of that interview, I came away going, I definitely gave it my best shot. I definitely represented myself as best as I possibly could and they are not going to give me this job because they are looking for somebody with more experience. That was totally my reflection.
James Glover [00:45:04]:
And then a few days there, I get this call saying, yeah, we want you to come for a second interview, I was like, okay, ace, great, brilliant. Pop banana, let's do that. So I went for the second interview and it was meeting more of the team and that went really well. And then they phoned me back again and went, so we've got a third interview for you. And I just went, I'm just wondering, every time I've come away from these interviews, it's been really great. I know I don't have the experience that you're looking for. That's clear every single time. How many more steps are there in this process? And the lady who was recruiting me, Tara Smith, who is one of those people that I have to be thanked for, for making just Step change in my life, for her having faith and belief in me just turned.
James Glover [00:45:51]:
Around and went, we really like you, and we think you've got something to offer here, but you are not experienced enough for the job that we've advertised. So we're changing the job role and we're just trying to figure that out. And that means you have to speak to some other people for us to make that happen. And I was like, okay, I'm going to stop asking questions. When did you want to see me again?
Rebecca Irving [00:46:07]:
Yes, good luck. Yes, I'll be I think I actually.
James Glover [00:46:12]:
After my second interview, walked down the corridor with her and went, I know that you're looking for somebody with more experience, but if there is another job comes up at any point in time, please keep me in mind. It's a definite talk less moment. Glover but, yeah, the outcome of that was I got this nine month maternity cover role and I left the institute eight years later, having worked the Beijing cycle, the London Olympic cycle and the beginning of the Rio cycle. And I only left having blagged my way in. I only left because of another leap of faith, which took me on again. And given the guests that we have coming up, there'll be some of that conversation to share, I'm sure. But again, if I was going through any kind of traditional route, I wouldn't have gotten that job if I hadn't just taken the leap of faith in that moment and said, well, why not? I wouldn't have had all of those experiences. And so it's really difficult for me when people feel, like, a sense of limitation, because I've had these experiences where I know it's to the contrary.
James Glover [00:47:20]:
And that is my naivety. It's not naivety now because I'm old, it's learned blindness. But in my head, that works in every situation, so why shouldn't you try it out? And it didn't work in every situation for me. Can't blag you into the ref, but that's totally another story. Definitely tried to get the job that I wanted in the ref when I didn't meet the criteria that they were asking for while in the selection center at Cranwell, and then was devastated when I got rejected at the board. And I don't know why. There are certain circumstances where these things don't work, and that's what you learn, but it doesn't take away from what I believe is possible. I guess that's kind of a little bit of an insight around a leap of faith.
James Glover [00:48:09]:
For me.
Rebecca Irving [00:48:12]:
I think using naivety was the wrong word, but I do think there's something special about you. I think that this can apply to everybody. I do think it can apply to everybody needs.
James Glover [00:48:24]:
Yes.
Rebecca Irving [00:48:27]:
Yeah, I think it can apply to everybody and that there are leaps of faith that you need to take in your life that will take you in whichever direction. But there's definitely something about you that would make people go is worth taking.
James Glover [00:48:39]:
And I think, for me, the bit that feels important for those that are listening to kind of here, as far as leaps of faith are concerned, is that we live in a volatile and uncertain world. Nobody saw a pandemic coming. Nobody was seeing the rate of inflation that's risen in the way that it has and the cost of living. Like, people just aren't seeing that coming. We're reactively trying to deal with it in the moment, and that makes things really difficult because we love a bit of certainty as human beings. We don't like change. We're really good at it, really good at it, but we really don't like it. We avoid it at all costs.
James Glover [00:49:15]:
And the thing that can make volatility, the thing that makes uncertainty, the thing that can make change far more simple, real, direct, meaningful is a sense of purpose because it enables you to go into the unknown. And so leaps of faith really are about going into the unknown. And so is there something about me? Well, that'd be really cool if there was. But there is also just this sense of well, when you know what's significant to you, when you know the contribution that you want to make, when you have a sense of what the impact of that contribution could be and you feel that intuitive conviction towards it, it doesn't feel so scary going into the dark room.
Rebecca Irving [00:50:08]:
Yeah, I take what you're saying. And also, leaps of faith are very lots of different sizes, aren't they? A leap of faith could be a huge change in your life, but it could be having that conversation with your boss that you've been putting off or standing up and saying something in a pivotal moment that could just change the way that you're seen or give you an opportunity or all of those kind of things. And you don't have to necessarily want the world to make a huge impact in the life that you've got or the experience that you've got or to have a huge impact in somebody else's life. It's very much a different lens that you use depending on what those desires are. And that's kind of where it does fit for everybody.
James Glover [00:50:56]:
You're the one that reminds me often that sense of purpose should never be a stick that somebody can beat themselves with. It should only be a way of creating possibility. And that feels like exactly the right message for people to hear that there are people in the world that have these massive and really clear sense of purposes that they want to live out and they know it really clearly and from an early age. And it is about transforming things that are massive. Greta Thunberg yes, let's have as many of those in the world as we possibly can, but not everybody has to do that. Just because it's clear and massive and she's made progress against it doesn't mean that what she's doing is what everybody has to do at all. Like purpose for each of us can be really small. I've been working with some people where they started to understand the significance of the bubble that they'd created at home, which was about their partner and their children and actually the role that they played in establishing but maintaining that bubble.
James Glover [00:52:01]:
And it was about purpose isn't about anybody else. So it wasn't about the partner and it wasn't about the children, but their contribution was the environment that they created around them and for them. And the impact of that was what was possible for these guys within that environment. So that meant that they got up every morning and went to work and it wasn't necessarily a job that inspired them, but it didn't need to because they found meaning in the work, because of what was sense of purpose for them in kind of creating and maintaining this environment. And that to your point, that's what makes it real for everybody. And I think probably on that note, Rebecca Becky Beck we should probably pause there as introduction to The Excitable Soul and the podcast that is going to be coming. Our guests are going to be put in a situation where we're going to ask them to talk about all of those same areas and hopefully gain some really rich insight that we can all learn from. We can all take away.
James Glover [00:53:15]:
That might spark a little bit of inspiration for each of us to go, I didn't know that was possible, or that could be done in that way, or oh, that's what actual meaningness looks and feels like. So thank you for being in it with me. This has been really cool, really cool. And I'm excited for the next one.
Rebecca Irving [00:53:37]:
Me too. Very much so. I feel a bit more confident.
James Glover [00:53:42]:
Massive. Thank you for taking the time to listen to The Excitable Soul podcast. If you are interested in uncovering, understanding and unleashing your sense of purpose, come and explore our purpose immersion programs@theexcitablesoul.com. We look forward to hearing from you there or being with you on our next episode. Have an incredible day.